Lock Bar Sight Originality

[dbarn]

Is there a method to determine if lock bar rear sights are original as mfgd. to a rifle vs. a restoration? Also, is it normal for the rear sight cover to be a lighter or darker color? Should it have the same patina/wear as the rest of the receiver? Thanks.

Information

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[Liftrat]

In determining whether a lockbar is original to a rifle, you might be able to tell by looking at the end of the pinion, where it comes through the windage knob. The originals had the end staked or opened up to prevent the lockbar from coming all the way off. However, it is possible to restake the pinion, so beware. That would be the only way I can think of. As far as rear sight covers, yes, they do often have a slightly different shade of parkerizing, due, in part I believe, to the different heat treatment they underwent. HTH.

[Kirk]

The short answer to your question is no. There is no practical way to determine if any sight has been on a rifle was put there during manufacture. The sights were made as separate parts and maded & finished in batches. Even parts made at the same time may have different colored finishes if they were finished indifferent tanks, in different solutions on different days before they were assembled.

Scott Duff's book on WWII Garands has a lot of info on lock bar sights the so-called flush nut or type I, type II, type III, etc. The info he presents matches the s/n of rifles to the month they were produced and to a variety of parts, inclusing sights, that would be expected on a rifle produced in any particular month.

Most Garands were reworked after the war & fitted with the T105E1 sights & modified op rods. Also, many Garands were broken down and reassembled at unit & depot level during & after the was. There was never any concern about returning a particular part to a particular receiver. In that sense, practically every garand is a mixmaster. Still, many Garands show up with the LBs. At the CMP, perhaps 2% of the Garands came with LB sights. Since most of these were Greek & Danish returns, I would consider these "original" to the rifle, particularly if they were the right type for the s/n. The CMP usually replaced only parts that were worn out or damaged, the probability is very high that these sights had been on the rifle since WWII.

The whole concept of an "original" Garand is a will o' the wisp and descends into philosophy. Unless one can certify that a particular rifle is exactly as it left SA as new production, is it original in the sense that it has all the parts it was originally made with? Will just one part changed out later makes in "not original"? If a rifle had a damaged/worn/obsolete sight or swivel or bolt that was replaced by a GI armorer with one of later vinatge, isn't it still "original" in the sense it meets the Army's definition of a Garand? Is a rifle less "original" if one GI part is replaced with another GI part by a civilian? I know many collectors want "original" rifles & do so by swapping parts. Personally, I consider any Garand used & maintained by the US or it allies as "original" but that rifles with import marks on them as "not original".

[latigo 1]

I know many collectors want "original" rifles & do so by swapping parts. Personally, I consider any Garand used & maintained by the US or it allies as "original" but that rifles with import marks on them as "not original".

You can not make an "original" rifle by swapping parts. You can make a "correct" rifle by swapping parts, but a rifle is only original if it still has the exact parts that were on it when it left the factory. A rifle used and maintained by the US that has updated parts is neither "original" or "correct". It is simply a used Garand that has been through a rebuild, commonly known as a "mixmaster".

[dbarn]

Great answers guys, and the discussion is much appreciated. My rifle in question is a Winchester 2.4 million. All parts are correct for this rifle, including the lock bar sight with it's thick apperature. The lighter colored gray sight cover has original finish, but does not have the patina the rest of the receiver has, however wear to the lock bar and elevation knob match the wear to the rifle and stock. Perhaps as suggested, the sight cover did not show patina and wear similar to the receiver due to different heat treatment and finish methods.

[latigo 1]

Post a pic of the cover to verify it is actually a WRA cover and not from another manufacturer.

[dbarn]

Will do this evening. Thanks.

[islandhopper]

And any other pics of your Winchester would be great. Always like looking at Garand rifles!

[dbarn]

Here's the sight cover. Will post a link for more photos.

[dbarn]

A link to additional photos. http://www.fototime.com/inv/75ADCEBF58A0586