Win OR Lose World War II ???

[Ozark Gary]

I don't know how the question asked got twisted into the last few posts. First -thank God we had the Greatest Generation was to fight the war in 1942. I'm not sure the current generation would make as good of a showing.

As far as the government question - I believe that is a whole different topic. Government is a necessary evil and nothing more. Government has gotten too big and too many government employees are "pot-lickers". I retired (early retirement) as a CSRS retiree 12 years ago, because I could no longer stomach the BS. And politicians only pervert good programs into welfare of one kind or the other. There are some good government employees - but they are greatly outnumbered by the pot-lickers. I tip my hat to the good government employees, but have nothing but contempt for the sub-standard bureaucrats.

[JohnMOhio]

I find that there have been some very good responses by all since my last visit to this thread. It has always been my impression that the .223 and 9mm were adopted for uniformity between our allies just as the .308 was adopted by many other nations withing the group. Finding that the 9 mm is not a results orentated as the .45 was seems to be the experince of our troops because we have the highest number there. Other nations, other and the UK have token forces when you consider numbers.

Now that having been said, how "costly" would it be to equip our troops with the .45 again. I am sure there is a bean counter somewhere that would object. I recall and could be wrong but I thought not long ago, more 9mm were purchased.

I also know that no matter what business is out there, there are slackers when it comes to a large number of employees. Many can be seen readily in the Postal System and the service there is no longer what it use to be at the counter at the branches.

There is greed and corruption. The Cleveland area is under going a large investigation of kick backs, hiring practice etc. The county sherrif has not hired new employees using the Civil Service Exam for something like 20 years.
County employees are being hired via friends and family in an umbelievable numbers. It goes on and on.

If you read the contract regarding the proposed Medical Mart operations it would make your head swim between getting around specific laws, lease backs and the like and the County taxpayers are financing this through a tax we were not allowed to vote on. A real sweet deal for Medical Mart.

If we have it here that bad, just imagine what Chicago has or the other larger cities. Greed is rampant.

Do we have any real organizers left that could make the grade with a war time effort such as WW2? That is the biggest question that would provide the answer to the original question. The same would apply to politics. Do we have any real Statesmen anymore?

I think I have said enough for now and I wish to say, I believe this to be one of the best threads in a long time that has caused some deep thinking by all the contributors.

My thanks for having been in such good company.

[TDH]

If IRC the deal was struck by NATO in exchange for going with the 5.56 over the 7.62 NATO the US went to the 9mm over the .45. This was to standardize ammo specs throughout the NATO nations. You have to speculate on why the US decided on the 5.56 but one would have to think that McNamara had a huge hand. Being the bean counter he was they did away with the Arsenal system that worked so well for us through Korea and up into the 60's to go with the lowest bidder. You can make (2) 5.56 cartridges for the price of (1) .308. Of course one marginal hit with (1) .30 caliber bullet will take most people out of a fight compared to how many hits from a delicate .22 caliber bullet. This destruction of the arsenal system gave way to inferior weapons and cartridges that put our boys and girls even farther into harms way. My idea of waging war is to kill the other guy before he kills you. Do it quickly and efficently and you win. Any other way and you get Viet Nam. Remember that the USSR spent several years in Afganistan using a .22 caliber bullet and lost.

[John Sukey (Deceased)]

We bought the 9mm Berreta because the Italians bought our F16's.
NOT because it was the best handgun.

While it is true that we are a part of NATO, I do believe we are still able to provide .45 calibre ammunition to our military if we wanted to.

[Hank Stone]

It was the Greatest Generation that prevailed in World War 2,darn good book to.By Tom brokaw!!

[TDH]

We bought the 9mm Berreta because the Italians bought our F16's.
NOT because it was the best handgun.

While it is true that we are a part of NATO, I do believe we are still able to provide .45 calibre ammunition to our military if we wanted to.

I couldn't agree more on the baretta or the cartridge. And it seems our Special Forces units still prefer the .45 for special ops.