No.7 Mk.1 .22 Caliber (RAF) serial numbers

[Frink]

Not a lot of these rifles out there to study, and the few I've seen seem to have some variation. On a good representative example, should the serial numbers on the bolt, receiver, and floor plate match? Any other serials to look for?

From the page http://www.rifleman.org.uk/Enfield_Rifle_No.7.html:

The high value has resulted in a number of rifles, of both marks (meaning the No. 7 and No. 9) being built up from a mixture of spares and re-manufactured parts. Caveat Emptor!


Would a No. 7 with non-matching BS-prefix serial numbers on the receiver, bolt, and floor plate be an example of such a built up rifle, and if so, what effect would this have on the value?

Thanks for any info!

Information

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[Simon P]

I would of thought if they were in UK military service the bolt would of been renumbered.

A bit off subject, I noticed the last few I sold had converted SMLE magazines instead of a No4 magazine, all were correctly converted with the .22 detachable magazine.

[Peter Laidler]

The reason that they had SMLE magazines was - so I was told many years ago by someone who had done his homework on the subject and read the paperwork - was that BSA were knee deep in old SMLE magazine cases so asked for a relaxation in the standards on the basis that the conversion would '.......be made simpler, easier and subsequently more robust in using these than the existing stamped standard magazines'. They forgot to mention that it was a convenient way of using them up - cheap!

The serial numbers SHOULD match and in UK and other military service, if it came to mixing parts for some reason or another, then the old number would be lined through and the new one re-engraved as it was difficult to stamp the bottom of a No7 magazine. I have one with the old BS number lined through and 1740 added later. Some will have a couple of numbers.

We would ocasionally strip one for its spare parts value. That way, the Cadet unit would get the remains back plus the necessary 1043-A paperwork which would entitle them to get a replacement which was always a newish No8 which was far better for their needs

We regularly used to see these RAF No7 rifles still in service with the School and local RAF Cadets until the 80's or so

A rifle with mismatching body to bolt/magazine/fore-end wouldn't necessarily indicate a 'made-up' rifle at all. To be honest, if someone had gone to the trouble of making one up from parts or had the parts made, then surely, he'd match the numbers up too. Even if it was on the basis that numbering up was the least difficult thing to do!

[fjruple]

The No.7 MkI Rifles that made it to the states had mismatched serial numbers on the bolt handles, bottom of the "magazine", and receiver. The importer made no attempt to match up the bolt handles and magazines to the correct serial number on the rifle. The rifles themselves were missing the complete bolt head assemblies, magazine inserts, and the extractor that mounts on the side of the receiver. The importer probably did not care to match up parts as the rifles were incomplete and it cost time and money to sort it all out. The impression I was left with when these rifles were released from the UK government for sale they did not want any body to use them so they removed several key parts.

--fjruple

PS-- I purchased three of them and all looked like they were new. They are all operational and I shoot them quite often. Deadly accurate at 100 yards.

[Peter Laidler]

The rifles you got WERE new fjruple............. They were in bodies and barrels left over from production (?) and sold off when the place closed THEN made up using common No4 parts, just to sell them. Generally speaking, the complete/used rifles were ex RAF stocks sold off when the RAF, Navy and Army pooled their small arms procurement services and standardised

Whether they were new rifles left over is a matter of speculation because some people, such as old time ex RAF Armourer Trevor Axxxxxd told me during conversation and suggest that the 'unfinished - incomplete' rifles were in fact rifles that had been sent back to BSA for a sort of Base Workshop repair that didn't get done. Instead, the RAF got back some of the No8 rifles currently being produced at BSA. As a result, they were ex BSA incomplete stock.

But fear not.......... Sets of the parts to complete your incomplete rifles are being made as we speak. So spread the good word and let's hope that the entrepeneur Dave makes a killing

[Buccaneer]

The No.7 MkI Rifles that made it to the states had mismatched serial numbers on the bolt handles, bottom of the "magazine", and receiver. The importer made no attempt to match up the bolt handles and magazines to the correct serial number on the rifle. The rifles themselves were missing the complete bolt head assemblies, magazine inserts, and the extractor that mounts on the side of the receiver. The importer probably did not care to match up parts as the rifles were incomplete and it cost time and money to sort it all out. The impression I was left with when these rifles were released from the UK government for sale they did not want any body to use them so they removed several key parts.

I can concur with that as I bought the last two sets of barrels/actions and magazines that Brain Dick had, they were all missmatched serial numbers but looking in pretty new condition. I have fitted them with new correct dated woodwork and I am now wait for DaveN to finish making the missing parts. When complete I will keep one and sell the other, I have no intention of changing or altering the serial numbers to "improve" there price it is just nice to get a couple of rare rifles back into working order again. When complete I will post pictures of the finished items.

[Mk VII]

For years GPC were pedalling these incomplete 7's, with the boltheads missing, and inviting you to fix them up yourself. I doubt many people could, though they might have bought one hoping they could.

[fjruple]

Peter--

The three rifles appeared to be new as there was no wear marks on the metal finish or wood furniture. Probably sat in an armory unused except for occasional cleaning or inventory. I managed to find three bolt heads from a supplier in the UK before he ran out. The extractors I obtained from Parker-Hale before they went out of business. The magazine inserts I used after market BSA Sportsman 5 magazines and modified them. It was interesting to note that the serial numbers on the magazine and bolt handles were only off 5-10 numbers from the rifle receiver. I also fitted them with Parker-Hale adjustable target rear sights. I used them more as shooters than a collector's gun.

--fjruple

[Brian Dick]

They were originally imported by Springfield Sporters in about 1990 IIRC. They were assembled from parts and had mismatched serials on bolt, body and magazine. I did manage to match up a couple at the time. The first ones sold were complete with magazines, magazine inserts and bolt heads but the small bolt head parts and ejectors were missing. I had 25 sets of the missing parts made by AJ Parker in Birmingham to restore 20 I bought direct from S.S. at that time. I still have one that I shoot that's matching and I've restored it to correct woodwork as they came from S.S. with Pakistani surplus Turkish walnut originally. It's still one of my favorite rifles. Later they sold off the remaining rifles at auction in various states of completeness so they're still out there and pop up from time to time. GPC/Numrich bought them at the S.S. auction.

[Frink]

As a new member of this forum I am blown away by the quantity and quality of the responses to my questions. I thought I would be lucky to find one or two owners of these guns - I got multiple knowledgeable owners and a former armorer with precisely the information I needed. THANKS!