Lithgow 1917 SMLE...HELP NEEDED

[bros]

A rifle came to my attention and it appears in nice original shape judging by the pictures.

It does have a magazine cut off.

Looking for a few answers.

Its a 1917 Lithgow SMLE that has been thru an FTR.

On the butt it is marked......

CMF
1.45

it is also stamped with the original rifle serial number


the 'CMF' is harder to make out but I believe that is what it is. What does that refer to?

There are also other stampings such as the shield, HV, crossed rifles and also it is marked
3-A
1.45

There is no stamp on the left of the butt socket indicating an FTR, does the '1.45' refer to the month and year of the FTR? What about the "3-A".

On the receiver it is marked 2 M.D. with the original serial number and another number presumably the FTR number. The bolt and nose cap have the new FTR number and the fonts appear the same. The nose cap also has a "star" stamp while the rear sight is not numbered. The barrel has the HV over "SC" stamp.

Stocked in dark wood, would this be Italian walnut more than likely? Under the fore stock there are two "E" stamps in different places, any ideas what they mean?

Anything here standout concerning a potential transaction?

thanks.

[Sapper740]

C.M.F. refers to Citizen Military Forces and 2 M.D. refers to 2nd Military District. I recall reading somewhere that the Australians darkened some of their lighter colored stocks with creosote at one time. Some of our Aussie members will be better able to tell you if the rifle is worth a premium or not.

[Brian Dick]

I was told back in the 1980s that the standard Australian finish was 50-50 raw linseed oil and creosote. It was used through the L1A1 production. You can sure smell it!

[CoatiMundi]

Are there any markings such as “SLAZ 43” or “SLAZ 45” on the wood? If so, that would tell you if the furniture was done by Slazenger and if so, it's probably WWII Australian Coachwood.

[mattyboy82]

The CMF is on these rifles stands for 'Commonwealth Military Forces'.

I too have a rifle with 3.A on the butt along with 10/44 (Which is a stores date and NOT a refurb date.

I've seen a few examples also with 3.A. I looked into it further and I'm of the opinion it stands for '3rd Australian Ordnance Depot'. I have a lot more info on this period and why we often see SMLEs with mid-1944 to early 1945 stores dates.

[Sapper740]

The CMF is on these rifles stands for 'Commonwealth Military Forces'.

I disagree. Mr. Skennerton lists CMF as Citizen Military Forces which was the term for Australian Army Reserves until 1980, I believe. Ian does note a CNF as Commonwealth Naval Forces, perhaps you're confusing the two. This can be found in his The Broad Arrow MkII book.

[Bindi2]

Sapper 740
I agree with you. It also was the force in New Guinea before the AIF got home from Egypt. They got badly slated by a certain Army officer for retreating over the Kokada trail so they turned around and pushed back over it. They also stopped the Japs at other battles to cause them to retreat. The first time that had happened to the Japs any where. Just a follow up from the AIF who turned Rommel around at Tobruk.
If you were in the school cadets you were in the CMF as the reserves.

[bros]

The CMF is on these rifles stands for 'Commonwealth Military Forces'.

I too have a rifle with 3.A on the butt along with 10/44 (Which is a stores date and NOT a refurb date.

I've seen a few examples also with 3.A. I looked into it further and I'm of the opinion it stands for '3rd Australian Ordnance Depot'. I have a lot more info on this period and why we often see SMLEs with mid-1944 to early 1945 stores dates.

Thanks for that.

I have since learned that it is not a refurb date.

I have also found out that a second number located on the breech (just above the rifle serial number) which I thought was a FTR number is not but a unit rack number of some sort, that same number is also stamped on the right side of the butt.

Rifle serial number is not on the rear sight but is on the nose cap.

[mattyboy82]

Bear in mind that in the earlier days, it wasn't 'Citizens Military Forces' but 'Citizens Forces'.

I too used to think it was for 'Citizens Military Forces' however the abbreviations under the instructions for Ordnance and subsequent stamping states that CMF is for 'Commonwealth Military Forces' and how to stamp the military district number under the C.M.F.

For some reason i cannot attach the images from the Military orders but will provide them in a message if people ask.

[CINDERS]

2 MD for info ~ The 2nd Military District was an administrative district of the Australian Army that covered most of New South Wales, with its headquarters in Sydney.
The southern border with the 3rd Military District was the Murrumbidgee River rather than the Murray River, and the western part of the state around Broken Hill was part of the 4th Military District.

In March 1939 a regional command structure was adopted, with 2nd Military District becoming Eastern Command and the 5th Military District was redesignated Western Command, while the 1st Military District in Queensland became Northern Command, and the three southern districts, the 3rd, 4th and 6th Military Districts in Victoria, South Australia and Tasmania, were amalgamated into Southern Command.
This required legislative changes to the Defence Act (1903), and did not come into effect until October 1939.

Yes and whilst the regular AIF was in Africa fighting Rommel & Co it was the non regular militia's that stopped the Japanese for the very first time in jungle warfare.
The IJA had a plan for us "Fugu PLan" whilst our Govt had "The Brisbane Line" plan for Australia.

As another layer Britain reneged on a deal made in 1936 to send aid to us if Australia was ever in peril as long as we sent troops to help her which we did to Africa.
The upshot was the Singapore debacle along with the Repulse & Prince of Wales being sunk.
The book is called "The Great Betrayal" By David Day.
The Japanese version is "Singapore The Japanese Version" By Masanobu Tsuji.