Trying to know more of this mk3 ishapore

[samzplin]

Hi,

I just acquired a lee enfield ShtLE MK 3 1938 made at Ishapore and wanted to know more about it some marking let me in the blue so i need help.

Microsoft OneDrive - Access files anywhere. Create docs with free Office Online.

That is what I have for now in the future I will mark each picture with a legend of what each marking is but for now I just made a list of the markings and were they are:

it' a ShtLE MK3 1938 it has matching receiver, bolt body and barrel (not that sure about it!)

The receiver have some RFI,/FI (26 not sure about the number) inside the collar where the stock is fitted.
The magazine cutoff groove is there but it is hidden under the stock, so because of it's RFI marking hte mag cut-off must have been taken off.
It also have a "O" and "34" marking on the top of the collar and I don't know what it mean.

The bolt head seem to a Reissued one it has a small "s" and Ishapore cross pennants mark over the old serial marking i think. It has another symbol that i'm not sure of: A broad arrow over what seem to be an 8.

The bolt body seem to be original it has the serial on the bolt knob even if it's extremely faint. On the back side of the bolt handle have "006", maybe it's the three las digit of the serial but I don't know if that was a normal practice to only have the ending of the serial.

The cocking piece seem to not be the original one because it's rounded on top so it's from a no.4 Lee. It has a symbol that [B]I can't decipher it's like an 'Y" over two symbol.
There is two marking on the bolt handle that i'm really not sure of one is on top and the other is on the bottom.

The trigger and sear has "FI" and "RFI" on hte left side so I think that mean that it is not original and is post 1948 marking of Ishapore.

The biggest question for me is the barrel it has so much marking on it that I don't really understand I understand the standard HV for MKVII ball, the R" for rust and the sold out of service 303 etc, but what is the marking after the square it seem like it is a circle separeted in three. the "F" and the "P" that are alone, The "13" over "G" got me really questioning.
.
The "ESSEX" marking is also strange, is that mean that it was the property of the Essex regiment?
My back sight seams to be changed cause it is not serialized it only have "N.63" under it and the "broad arrow" on top. Th front sight seem to have the same "D" (or is it "10"?) and a broad arrow.

Al the wood seems ruff, i think it is not original tho... It as not many marking the stock as none except that it have the disc with no marking if I remember correctly it is period correct tho.
The front cover have "SA" over "52" over a "squared c (maybe it's more a "F")", maybe it is a South Africa marking?

The front stock has not much eligible marking only a big "193" inside it has the ishapore screw and a metal band at the back. Does that means that it is not original ?
EDIT I just saw a DP marking under it close to the action, it also have a "DP" on the back sight protector but it is really faint almost only see the "D".

It is all that I can see for now! It's raising so much question that I don't know where to start, but it is so fun to try to decipher all that. The history theses old rifle have is so interesting and i'm just starting to learn !

I'm trying to figure out if you can see the pics so let me know!

thanks for the information that I've found on that forum it is so fun to see so much knowledge in one place!


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Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[samzplin]

Hi,

I just acquired a lee enfield ShtLE MK 3 1938 made at Ishapore and wanted to know more about it some marking let me in the blue so i need help.

Microsoft OneDrive - Access files anywhere. Create docs with free Office Online.

That is what I have for now in the future I will mark each picture with a legend of what each marking is but for now I just made a list of the markings and were they are:

it' a ShtLE MK3 1938 it has matching receiver, bolt body and barrel (not that sure about it!)

The receiver have some RFI,/FI (26 not sure about the number) inside the collar where the stock is fitted.
The magazine cutoff groove is there but it is hidden under the stock, so because of it's RFI marking hte mag cut-off must have been taken off.
It also have a "O" and "34" marking on the top of the collar and I don't know what it mean.

The bolt head seem to a Reissued one it has a small "s" and Ishapore cross pennants mark over the old serial marking i think. It has another symbol that i'm not sure of: A broad arrow over what seem to be an 8.

The bolt body seem to be original it has the serial on the bolt knob even if it's extremely faint. On the back side of the bolt handle have "006", maybe it's the three las digit of the serial but I don't know if that was a normal practice to only have the ending of the serial.

The cocking piece seem to not be the original one because it's rounded on top so it's from a no.4 Lee. It has a symbol that [B]I can't decipher it's like an 'Y" over two symbol.
There is two marking on the bolt handle that i'm really not sure of one is on top and the other is on the bottom.

The trigger and sear has "FI" and "RFI" on hte left side so I think that mean that it is not original and is post 1948 marking of Ishapore.

The biggest question for me is the barrel it has so much marking on it that I don't really understand I understand the standard HV for MKVII ball, the R" for rust and the sold out of service 303 etc, but what is the marking after the square it seem like it is a circle separeted in three. the "F" and the "P" that are alone, The "13" over "G" got me really questioning.
.
The "ESSEX" marking is also strange, is that mean that it was the property of the Essex regiment?
My back sight seams to be changed cause it is not serialized it only have "N.63" under it and the "broad arrow" on top. Th front sight seem to have the same "D" (or is it "10"?) and a broad arrow.

Al the wood seems ruff, i think it is not original tho... It as not many marking the stock as none except that it have the disc with no marking if I remember correctly it is period correct tho.
The front cover have "SA" over "52" over a "squared c (maybe it's more a "F")", maybe it is a South Africa marking?

The front stock has not much eligible marking only a big "193" inside it has the ishapore screw and a metal band at the back. Does that means that it is not original ?
EDIT I just saw a DP marking under it close to the action, it also have a "DP" on the back sight protector but it is really faint almost only see the "D".

It is all that I can see for now! It's raising so much question that I don't know where to start, but it is so fun to try to decipher all that. The history theses old rifle have is so interesting and i'm just starting to learn !

I'm trying to figure out if you can see the pics so let me know all the other ones are on my onedrive page the link is suppose to be below and at the start!

thanks for the information that I've found on that forum it is so fun to see so much knowledge in one place!
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[krinko]

Well, I'll give it a shot...
You have a lot of questions and I have only a few answers---so let's dispose of some of the unanswerable questions first.
1.Many of the mysterious small marks that bother you were applied at the factory during manufacture. They meant something then to the people building the rifle, but these meanings are lost.
2.There are small inspector's marks from Ishapore on your rifle in various places---(R)FI and (I)SA over numbers are Ishapore marks. The "EFD" on the trigger bow is an Enfield Lock inspector's mark. The "N63" on the back sight is for "T.Senior, Atlas Works, Liversidge, Yorks" which means this sight leaf was made during WW2.
3.The barrel, 81006 D, was most likely assembled to this receiver after it had already been on the original 81006 D receiver. I say this because this receiver has been numbered to the barrel with a slightly different set of stamps and the "D" suffix has been omitted. This receiver's original serial number would have been removed for this operation. The mark after the square is ["] meaning "inch", as in "pounds per square inch". The "R" on the left side isn't a "rust" mark, it's probably "replacement".
4.The bolt is not original to the rifle. The large grind mark on the rear of the bolt handle indicates the removal of an earlier number and it is not procedure to mark only part of the serial number (006) in that location. So it isn't an official replacement bolt.
5.The forestock is a post war Ishapore type and this, combined with the other mixed parts---like the nosecap---would seem to indicate a rebuilt sporter, or a rebuilt parts gun. And I do not mean rebuilt at a government facility---sorry if this is bad news.
The single most interesting bit has got to be the "N 63" marked sight leaf---at least to me, since WW2 Enfields are the only ones still in my possession and I have never seen that mark before.
At any rate, you should be able to shoot this one. If you are worried about headspace and safety because of the unofficially replaced bolt, tie it to a bench and pull the trigger with a long string. If the bolt doesn't blow out of the rifle and go screaming past your ear, you can move up to holding it in your hands.
-----krinko

[samzplin]

First thank you really much for your input it's really appreciated, i'm a bit bummed for the barrel and bolt, I really didn't thought of it that way but now that you say it, it make sense the typo is really not the same on the barrel and the D is a dead give away.

4.The bolt is not original to the rifle. The large grind mark on the rear of the bolt handle indicates the removal of an earlier number and it is not procedure to mark only part of the serial number (006) in that location. So it isn't an official replacement bolt.

Maybe it's me that want it to a real replacement bolt body too much, but I'm really sure that the 81006 serial is marked on the round part of the bolt handle haha!

5.The forestock is a post war Ishapore type and this, combined with the other mixed parts---like the nosecap---would seem to indicate a rebuilt sporter, or a rebuilt parts gun. And I do not mean rebuilt at a government facility---sorry if this is bad news.

So I just call the guy that sold it to me and he said that he scrap two originals top handguards because they were almost completely destroy.

At any rate, you should be able to shoot this one. If you are worried about headspace and safety because of the unofficially replaced bolt, tie it to a bench and pull the trigger with a long string. If the bolt doesn't blow out of the rifle and go screaming past your ear, you can move up to holding it in your hands.

I check the headspace with small disc gauge, it did not close on the field and the no go ones! still I think I will follow your advice and use a string and be far away just to be sure!

[CINDERS]

Is it just me or is the sear spring ar$e about in Pic #38 I thought the long leg went to the mag release lever and the short one to the sear!

[krinko]

"... but I'm really sure that the 81006 serial is marked on the round part of the bolt handle..."

The Swedes numbered bolt knobs---



The Finns sometimes numbered bolt knobs---



Ishapore followed the British numbering scheme and applied serial numbers to bolts on the rear face of the bolt handle, not on the knob.
Check the archives of this forum and you may gather information that will help you find a really original rifle.
That is to say, a rifle that has not been altered in civilian hands after being sold out of service.
-----krinko