IHC mystery marking

[Jerome Cooper]

My IHC garand has a strange marking in the serial number. The total number reads 45188xx. But the first 8 has been spot annealed and the area around it is slightly discolored. The 8 must have been a 3 and must have been softened and struck over with the eight die. It was done perfectly as there is no evidence of the strike or double image visible. I once showed it to Tony Pucci, the Garand Man of Orion/ He said that he had seen a few others over the years, but he and others that he talked to hadn't any clue what or why that was done with threes in that digit column and others. Speculations included using already numbered receivers, fudging, avoiding repeating numbers on existing ones etc. No conclusions ever reached. Rest of the gun looks like its supposed to. Does anyone have any ideas or info? Thanx for any help. JC

Information

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[budmant]

I have a Gap Letter that is the same way...looks like a lead dipped heel & a 8 that looks to have been a 3. Have always wondered about that also.

[Embalmer]

I had one exact same way, but sold it 2 years ago... maybe the same one??

[Rick Cummelin]

FWIW, here are a few more data points regarding these IHCs.....

There was one particular dealer in the Denver area who has been selling these unusually marked IHCs for over 20 years. In the late 80s, he would have 10-20 of these on his table at every show, but there have been fewer and fewer the last several years, and I think he has run out of them. However, I'm talking about HUNDREDS of rifles here, not just a few. By now, they could have been spread all over the country, plus he may not have been the only source of these things.

All these M1s had been spot-annealed and had a 3 overstamped with an 8. No rhyme or reason as to how or why it was done. The 3 could be anywhere in the serial number, so all the speculation about duplicate serial ranges is null & void. I thought this overstamping was unique/particular to IHCs, until I found a 3 million SA on his table one day where the first 3 in the s/n had been overstamped, making it an 8 million!

In addition to the overstamping, all the rifles had been rather crudely refinished, with smaller parts parkerized, and barrels painted (too long to fit in a pan on the kitchen stove was what I was told). The spot-annealing was covered up by some flat grey or black spray paint. Most of the barrels had very dark and rough bores and were very worn too. All the wood was rough, with a heavy coat of oil on top. They were cheap though.

As to rumors, the most predominant is that these rifles came out of Canada, but perhaps not imported through the "system" as they should have been, and the overstamping was done to confuse anyone attempting to track down what was going on. Who knows?

For many years, I copied down the serial numbers of these rifles and sent the numbers to one of the GCA board members, so that we might eventually have enough data to understand what happened with these rifles. At this point, I believe there still isn't enough data. Maybe some day that board member might publish his findings on the subject in a GCA newsletter.

We may never know the truth about these rifles, but they are somewhat different.

[Jerome Cooper]

Rick Cummelin, July 14, 2009
A mere thank you does not, in retrospect, seem sufficient so I am adding this addendum in the form of a post rather than a personal message that would not be seen by anyone following this thread. The data, info and commentary that you have provided is not only highly informative and fascinating, but is truly astonishing. Of course a Springfield Armory Garand with a SN of 8 million is out of the question, but the original enigma as I originally presented it to Orion some 17 years ago was a bit more involved. Not that it shed any more light on the matter at the time, but I did a mathematical evaluation for Tony in which I calculated the possible permutations of the occurence of threes in all of the digit columns of the recognized serial numbers known for IHC's. He published the article in his monthly edition of The Garand Times, a paper that he put out at that time. I do not remember, after all this time, where the copy of the study is among my things, nor where the copy of the particular edition of the paper is, but the number of permutations/strikeover possibilities was much more than in the "hundreds". That still left us nowhere closer to any kind of solution or conclusion. My own rifle in question was thoroughly examined by him and it had/has none of the finish problems(that you mention) on any of the parts. It has a very good bore, wood and appears to be in excellent condition. It was purchased in the lower Hudson Valley of New York State from a gentleman dealer named Peter Cardone(now deceased) who was the owner of the most revered and famous collection of Springfield 1903's. Literally racks and racks of incredible rarities that defied the imagination. He travelled nationwide so it is probable that he may have gotten one of these IHC's anywhere at any show. At some date in the near future I would like to share my inquiry and your response with Tony P. He is a close friend of Scott Duff who has authored several books on the Garand. Certainly the data that you have provided should be recognized and published in any upcoming publication that may be forthcoming. I do hesitate to use your name and information that you provided or as such compromise any privacy concerns that you may have without your permission to do so. The theory that you advanced regarding the "Canadian Connection" is most intriguing. Other than the 8 million numbered Springfield, I wonder how many Winchesters and/or H&R's may have been smilarly played with. This information and compilation thereof, if it is retrievable thru the boardmember that you corresponded with may prove not only fascinating but immensley valuable to Garand collectors worldwide. Again thanking you for your most meaningful response. It has been most profoundly appreciated. Sincerely, Jerome Cooper

[Rick Cummelin]

You are most welcome. I'm glad some of the wierd data in my brain is still worth something to someone. Not to be dropping names, but I know Scott & Tony, and used to visit with Peter twice a year when he came to the big gun show in Tulsa. It's actually quite conceivable that Peter may have picked up your IHC in Tulsa, as Tulsa is less than a day's drive from Denver. Peter had some really nice stuff, but his prices always reflected that fact. In those days, the Tulsa show was a buyer's dream, and if you had a sharp eye, you could always find really nice stuff at bargain prices. Not so any more. Way too many sharks to compete with. I haven't been to Tulsa in 6-8 years, and now that I live in Western Colorado, the distance is too great anyway to consider going again.

Over the years, I swapped out several barrels on these IHCs for owners who unknowingly bought ones with bad barrels which were sadly inaccurate. Cheap usually doesn't equate to good. Once in awhile you could find one of these rifles with a decent barrel, but not often. Also, the guys selling these were NOT M1 collectors, and had no idea which parts went with which serial range, and basically assembled them like a GI repair depot, with whatever part fell readily to hand during assembly. I actually had a good relationship with these guys, which is how I got permission to record the s/ns of their rifles.

I will likely see that board member in Anniston in October, and hopefully I can engage him in a conversation about these odd M1s.