old 303 ammo

[smle13]

I was wondering if anyone knew where to get 215 gr silver or lead jacketed 303 ammo because I want to shoot that in my smle no.1 mkI. the reason is that my smle is marked "HV" on the barrel, NOT hv-sc so it is still only supposed to use that type of ammo?

Thanks!!

Information

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[smle13]

thanks!! the reason I want that ammo is because I want to shoot what is meant to be shot in it.

[Rowdy]

While the rifle was designed for Mk.VI ammo the HV means that the sights were altered to take Mk.VII so that is what the army used.
The silver jackets are a nickel based alloy which was replaced by the copper based alloy in the later ammunition as it fouled less and was easier to clean.

[smle13]

thanks! that picture that you posted of the ammo is great too. i just wanted the nickel jacketed ammo to maybe shoot 4 or five rounds, but it was mainly for a presentational thing. I just really like the way it looks, but cant seem to find any.

Thanks!!

[Parashooter]

The "silver" jacket metal of the early smokeless-powder era is cupronickel, an alloy of ~20% nickel and 80% copper. After WWI, it was largely supplanted by mild steel, "gilding metal" (~5% zinc and 95% copper), or steel plated with a thin layer of a mostly-copper alloy, none of which leave the lumpy, persistent jacket fouling characteristic of cupronickel in high-velocity loads. Furthermore, nickel is considerably more costly than the alternatives and strategically important for applications where its properties are advantageous.

Few modern enthusiasts would choose cupronickel-jacketed bullets even if they were still being manufactured. The gilding-metal used on most jacketed bullets sold today offers superior performance and is entirely suitable for any .303 in good condition - from the first Lee-Metford to the last No.4 Mk.2.

Bottom line: there are no advantages to cupronickel jackets that outweigh their significant disadvantages.

[jmoore]

Except the one stated: It LOOKS the part.

Otherwise, Parashooter, I agree!

I wouldn't want to shoot the stuff either.

[smle13]

i would just like 10 or 20 rounds of it to use in my collection or a display. I like the way it looks.

[Son]

smle13, you say you want to shoot what the rifle was meant to shoot. I'm assuming here (from your holy grail post) what you have is a 1905 BSA MKI*** (more on the designation later...)

The HV marking on the barrel means the sights had been set up to shoot MkVII ball, no longer being sighted for the MKVI.

The mods to the sights to fire MkVII was introduced in June 1911 with LoC # 15638. Sometime after this would have been when your rifle was changed from MkI* to MkI***. The fact it has the three "*" shows it has been through the mod.
(To have the HV mark it must have been through the mod, and must be a MkI***)

The reference to SC is the mod to the chamber of opening the small cone diameter out by .002". This modification was introduced through the List Of Changes (LoC # 21209) sometime between Dec 1917 and June 1918 and looks to have applied to the manufacture of new barrels after that date.

To sum up, all MkI*** rifles are sighted for MkVII, and unless they have had a barrel changed after 1918, they should not have the SC marking. (will take corrections to this- backed by photos of SC marks and barrel manufacture date)
MkVII is the correct ammo for your rifle, but the MkVI won't hurt it as long as you realize it might take a bit more cleaning afterwards.

Here's a link to a great MKL entry on the Sht LE MkI series of rifles by John Thorne. On the end I've posted a complete explanation to why they are not called "No1 Mk1" by the book. The terminology I'm told, first appeared used by early milsurp importers in the US.

1907 ShtLE (Short Lee-Enfield) MkI*** Rifle - Military Surplus Collectors Forums

[jmoore]

Son's most definitive answer makes your life rather easier, smle13, if you wish to display some cupro-nickel bulleted ammunition as "silver-colour" bulleted MkVII ammo was made even after WWII. (The post war stuff was mostly Italian, I think). Might not be C-N jackets, more likely mild steel, but it looks pretty much the same.

I think it might be a good idea to deactivate or remove the powder from the rounds if there is a possibility of unauthorized access to the display.

[John Sukey (Deceased)]

Again, the problem is where you are located and the postal regulations governing the shipment of live ammo.
I have some 1917 dated Mk6 but mailing it is just not possible.
Yes folks, I know it shouldn't exsist but that's what the headstamp says
KF VI 17