Battalion Spares Box [B box] contents ??

[1812we1]

Does anyone [Peter?] have the official list of what is in the B box ? The auction gods smiled on us and one is on the way to the Museum as I speak. It was advertised, " as complete as they get" and from the pics the trays looked full. Just wondering what we can expect to find. In any case there should be enough to keep our Inglis Mk1m &Mk2 running for the foreseeable future.
Sadly we missed out on the 2 7.92s [ an 'OT'& a 'CH' !!] and an L4a1. Prices were way out there for Canada and the acquisition card is a tad stretched. Cheers SK.

Information

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[Peter Laidler]

I hope this blurb helps you. It is taken from my Bren Gun book that is in the throes of it's final editing prior to publication by Small Arms Review and edited by Fran Ianamico. Here goes, in edited form
BOX, battalion, spares, Bren .303” MG Mk1 (EMPTY); C1/BE 6053, The only instructions with the boxes was that regardless of whether they were marked EMPTYU or FILLED, you've guessed it......., they were all issued empty! It was up to the Quartermaster to fill them with the bits and issue them to the Armourers shop. Nope....., I don't understand it either! Theree was a little note inside which read “FOR CONTENTS DETAILS, SEE EQUIPMENT REGULATIONS, PART 1.” The problem being that these boxes were manufactured during the 40’s and the parts issued then didn’t equate to the parts required for guns of the 60’s and 70’s…. -0 or even the 50's! But still the boxes were issued. As a result, they fell into disuse and those that were retained generally became used as Armourers tool or range boxes and in several cases, home toolboxes! But just WHAT were the contents. It took a delve deep into the bowels of the old Equipment Regulations to see, and here it is, with the February 1944 revision:
Box filled ‘A’ is for units with 10 – 24 Brens
Box filled ‘B’ is for units with 25 – 74 Brens
Units with over this amount will have boxes accordingly
Box ‘A’ Box ‘B’ Remarks
Blocks, breech assy 8 16a reduced to 2 and 4, 2/44

Let me clarify things here using the breech blocks as an example because the forum won't allow this spiel to tabulate
The first number (8) is for the A box while the second (16) is the B box and the letter a,b or c indicates which tray/level it fitted. Followed by the remarks. Ready....., then we'll continue
Blade foresight, numbers .25 2 3 introduced, 2/44
28 8 15a reduced to 2 and 3, 2/44
.31 4 8a reduced to 2 and 3, 2/44
.34 2 4a reduced to 1 and 3, 2/44
.37 2 4a deleted, 2/44
.40 3 6a deleted, 2/44
Brushes, rod, cleaning cylinder 5 10 introduced, 2/44
Butts 1 2b
Caps, tube, return spring 2 3a
Catch, cover ejection opening 1 2a deleted, 2/44
Catch, leg, bipod 1 1a deleted, 2/44
Cover, magazine opening 1 2a deleted, 2/44
Extractors 3 5a deleted, 2/44
Grip, handle, butt assembly* 2 4c deleted, 2/44
Leaves, backsight 1 2a deleted, 2/44
Mops, rod, cleaning cylinder 5 10 introduced, 2/44
Nuts, screw, bipod sleeve 1 2a deleted, 2/44
Pins, firing 5 10a decreased to 3 and 5, 2/44
Pins, mounting 2 4a decreased to 1 and 2, 2/44
Screws retaining mounting pin 13 25a decreased to 3 and 6, 2/44
Pistons assembled 1 1b deleted, 2/44
Protector, foresight 1 2a deleted, 2/44
Post, piston 2 4a deleted, 2/44
Regulator, gas 1 2 introduced, 2/44
Retainer, gas regulator 3 6 introduced, 2/44
Spring, pin firing 3 5a deleted, 2/44
Piston post 3 5a
Return 3 5a increased to 5 and 10, 2/44
Stay, extractor 1 2a deleted, 2/44
Catch, magazine 3 5a reduced to 1 and 3, 2/44
Stay, extractor 1 2a deleted, 2/44
Plate, butt 1 2a deleted,2/44
For Mounting, tripod, Bren:
Bracket, AA 3 5c deleted, 2/44
Clip, butt handle 5 10a deleted, 2/44
Retainer, AA legs 3 5a deleted, 2/44
*grip could also be used as carrying handle.
a= upper tray
b= bottom of box
c= lower tray

It is interesting to note that while provision was made for 2 spare butt handle assemblies, there was no provision for spare pistol grips which could (and regularly did) split vertically when dropped down hard during range practice. Indeed, in September 1941,only 5 months after the introduction of the box, the butt handles and their tripod clips were abolished. Also interesting is the fact that provision is made for a spare ejection opening cover catch although in many years of service, I do not recall ever having to replace one! Quite clearly from this list, many of the parts such as the AA components of the Mk1 tripod were obsolete many years ago and a collector hell-bent on gathering such a collection together will face an uphill task. Indeed, the internal shapes within the boxes cater not for current Mk3/L4 parts, but in the case of the butts and butt plates, the original Mk1 type, complete with folding shoulder strap! By 1944 the contents had been revised to reflect the real world and this is shown.

Australian made boxes contain three trays because there was no discrimination between unit with less than or more than 25 guns. The contents remain the same.

Anyonbe else any comments?

[Peter Laidler]

Further to your plight 1812, you can easily convert a Mk2 gun to become a jolly good look-a-like 7.92mm presentable show gun. Getting a magazine to fit perfectly is a 3/4hr job on a good milling machine and thereafter the markings are a simple pantograph engraving job - including copying the chinese characters.

The VERY good news is that you saved yourself a whole lot of money by NOT buying the L4A1 gun. They were nothing but trouble

[Lee Enfield]

Further to your plight 1812, you can easily convert a Mk2 gun to become a jolly good look-a-like 7.92mm presentable show gun. Getting a magazine to fit perfectly is a 3/4hr job on a good milling machine and thereafter the markings are a simple pantograph engraving job - including copying the chinese characters.

The VERY good news is that you saved yourself a whole lot of money by NOT buying the L4A1 gun. They were nothing but trouble

there were 2 L4A4's for auction, not an L4A1

[1812we1]

Thanks very much Peter. Gives a pretty good idea what to look for. Glad to hear the book is getting closer,hope they do a decent print run. Will forward pics when box arrives. In the meantime if anyone wants to have a look at what was in the auction it is at Switzers.com,the Oct.20 one.Lots of pics of what was a rather amazing collection of 'live' full and converted auto pieces. I stand corrected on the L4s. They were L4a4s, 1 full/1 ca. The former went for 4700+10%+tax;similar prices on 2 Lewis guns. Quite steep for us here in Prohibland and way over our current budget. According to Paul Switzer only 2 of the 'prohibs' were sold as dewats. the rest live on as functional historic ordnance...for now. H
hopefully they all found caring homes. Cheers,and thanks again for the info, Steve Knechtel.

[Peter Laidler]

Please don't send pics of spares box.......... As you can imagine, I've seen hundreds of 'em!

[Brit plumber]

Did anyone get the Serial numbers of the Brens? I could do with the numbers of the Double Dovetail guns and the L4A4s, one of them would be brilliant as it looks like it is somthing like UE68 A15920 which would indicate that enfield stoped converting to the L4A4 in 1962 when it began converting Mk2s to L4A3 spec before recommencing the L4A4 in late 1968.

[1812we1]

The L4a4s were 13094 & 15920 , two of the Mk1s were B4960 & E6937. Rest can be found on Gunnutz.ca under 'milsurps', Paul Switzer auction report thread. SK

[Warren]

The correct and complete numbers are actually: A15920 on the full auto 12(2) and the converted auto 12(3) number is: UE61 A13094