Savage No. 4 (T) Scopeless stamps?

[wotter]

Hello all,
Something I would like clarified if possible.

Would you expect to find the 'TR' stamp on a scopeless Savage No.4 (T) ?

Was the 'TR' stamp put on No4 rifls showing potential at Weelon or the manufacturing factory?

Would they not have a 'T' on the side of the body (being not fully completed with a scope)?

Or looking at it the other way, what stamps should a Savage 'scopeless' have?

Many thanks

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[husk]

I've never seen a Scope-less Savage T with the T or TR marks, but that doesn't mean they don't exist. Of the dozen or so that I've observed, all did have the H & H, S51 mark.

ATBAttachment 48553Attachment 48554Attachment 48555

[Brian Dick]

1. No
2. "TR" was stamped at BSA on rifles selected for accuracy.
3. No, the "T" was stamped upon completion with a scope fitted. Many, (mostly 1944), H&H conversions don't have it either. The only explanation is that there was a war on.

Savage rifles were converted at H&H so should have the S51 and examiner's marks present unless the butt has been changed.

Skennerton needs to publish more of "The No.4T, An Armourer's Perspective" by Peter Laidler since they are now out of print. It's all there if you can find a copy someplace.

[Badger]

Hello all,
Something I would like clarified if possible.

For those looking for additional information on Savage No.4(T) sniper rifle conversions, check the MKL and read this article by Advisory Panel member Lance:

1942 No.4 Mk1*(T) Savage Sniper Rifle (less scope)

Regards,
Doug

[Ridolpho]

Brian: Where were the D6E examiners stamp marks typically put on the Savage T's? Looking through the collection of photos I've managed to put together I can't find an example of it.

Ridolpho

[Brian Dick]

The examiner's marks will only be found on rifles that were completed with a telescope at H&H. They are in the same place as normal BSA produced rifles. On the top of the butt socket.

[wotter]

Hello guys,
Information is much appreciated.

I checked out the '1942 No.4 Mk1*(T) Savage Sniper Rifle (less scope)' link, but I didn't read anything about what sort of stamps should be on a scopeless.
I may just have missed it.
However the pictures indicate that the 'T' and 'TR' are missing.
(The rest of the article gets confusing because it has a section on how to spot a 'Fake' No4 (T) which is a different beast altogether.)
Mention is made of Savage rifles being re-barreled with British made 5 groove barrels.
That sounds strange as I thought H&H rejected anything out of speck.
And if a rifle was chosen as having sniper potential, changing the barrel would be strange.

Skennerton does have the "The No.4T, An Armourer's Perspective" by Peter Laidler.
I got one from him last week; a terrific read.
Peter and Ian, I thoroughly enjoyed the way it was written.

In summary, am I right in thinking that:
- H&H had a some Savage rifles on hand during the No4 (T) conversion period from Nov '42 to April 46,
- Most or all of these Savages were Mk1 (not Mk1*)
- A few Savage rifles were fully converted by H&H when they ran low on other stocks of rifles.
- Some/most of the remaining Savage rifles had been fitted with scope pads and maybe cheek rests.
- These were handed over at end of contract and put into stores. (page 229. The L.E. book)

Does that sound about right?
(I'm one of those blokes who need it spelt out in 20 words or less, otherwise it all gets a bit confusing ;-)

[Surpmil]

The examiner's marks will only be found on rifles that were completed with a telescope at H&H. They are in the same place as normal BSA produced rifles. On the top of the butt socket.

I have a 1944 M47C TR receiver here that has the "S" and both Enfield examiner's marks, as well as the usual "TR" marks. It has never had pads fitted and was found as a stripped barreled receiver among hundreds of such that were among the leftovers of Castle Armoury in Vancouver BC, many moons ago. There is not a shadow of doubt that the markings are original, so it would seem that there are exceptions to those rules as well.

[Peter Laidler]

Not finished to 'T' spec, not marked - as it wasn't a T

[CINDERS]

Brian Dick also has limited No.s of the 32 scope booklet a worthy companion to Skennerton/Laidler book @$50.00AU landed in West Aus be quick as they will not last long