M48A Accuracy Issues

[mr.tickle]

I have a M48A I had gotten from Mitchell's Mausers last year. The issue I have with it, is that it shoots extremely low. I use one of the NRA 100 yard targets and aim at the center of the target (with the sight adjustment slid all the way back). At 100 yds (the furthest I have been able to shoot it) it shoots below the black and some shots shoot land below the target circle but still on paper. I have done these shots from a leadsled. Is there anyway to adjust the elevation of the front sight? Is there something I am missing about these guns or did I get a lemon?

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[mr.tickle]

Also the only ammo I have used is PPU 8mm Mauser Match ammo. 200 grain FMJBT

[vintage hunter]

shoots extremely low

the only ammo I have used is PPU 8mm Mauser

That's the cause of you troubles right there. PRVI/PPU 8mm is underpowered. Popular consensus seems to be it's loaded to SAAMI specs rather the European C.I.L specs. Muzzle velocities average around 300fps less than Milsurp or other European sporting ammo with comparable bullet weights. Give some S&B a try, it should solve your low POI problem.

[mr.tickle]

That's the cause of you troubles right there. PRVI/PPU 8mm is underpowered. Popular consensus seems to be it's loaded to SAAMI specs rather the European C.I.L specs. Muzzle velocities average around 300fps less than Milsurp or other European sporting ammo with comparable bullet weights. Give some S&B a try, it should solve your low POI problem.

Thank you. Is there any other brands besides S&B you would recommend? Is the milsurp yugo/PPU stuff you see often for sale is that CIL spec or SAAMI spec?

[vintage hunter]

Is there any other brands besides S&B you would recommend?

Other than S&B all I've ever shot in my 8mm's was Turkish milsurp or my own handloads. I generally don't recommend items I have no hands in experience with but you might give the Hornady brand a go. Advertised muzzle velocities of 2500 fps suggest it's closer to European standards. It ain't cheap though, $33/20 rounds. About the only other option would be the Nosler offerings but it's ridiculously expensive at pert near $3 a round.

Is the milsurp yugo/PPU stuff you see often for sale is that CIL spec or SAAMI spec?

Just an educated guess but I'd say all/most actual military surplus would be loaded to European standards.
Do you reload? Might be your best option.

[mr.tickle]

Just an educated guess but I'd say all/most actual military surplus would be loaded to European standards.
Do you reload? Might be your best option.

I just built a reloading bench and am working on getting all the equipment. Guess this gives me another excuse to hurry up and get everything set up! Do you know a good website that lists the CIL spec loadings?

Just shot the last of my PPU ammo saturday glad I held off on ordering more!

Thanks for all the help!

[Patrick Chadwick]

Is there something I am missing about these guns or did I get a lemon?

Yes/maybe. Read on!

That's the cause of you troubles right there. PRVI/PPU 8mm is underpowered. Popular consensus seems to be it's loaded to SAAMI specs rather the European C.I.L specs. Muzzle velocities average around 300fps less than Milsurp or other European sporting ammo with comparable bullet weights. Give some S&B a try, it should solve your low POI problem.

Sorry, I don't think it will. IMHO, the whole thread about trying different types of commercial ammo is a confusing and expensive red herring.

Let's look at some simple ballistics, taken from the table in the Sierra manual for 175gn .323 dia. SPT bullets - and believe me, at 100 yards it hardly matters what type of bullet you use - and I use everything from round ball to 6mm BR boattails - it just isn't flying far enough for BC etc to make the kind of difference under discussion here.

Right at the top: 3200 fps. Drop at 100yds = 1.78"

Down at the bottom: 2100 fps. Drop at 100yds = 4.18"

So the diffence is a mind-boggling 2.4 inches! Which does not explain the following:

At 100 yds (the furthest I have been able to shoot it) it shoots below the black and some shots shoot land below the target circle but still on paper.

The number of Mausers I have shot must now be getting close to 3-figures. And up to now none of them shot too low. On the contrary, all were high to disastrously high. So with some of them I had to tack on a second bull below the target to get the shots to land in the black of the upper bull. The typical military Mauser was zeroed at 200-300 meters for a central hold, depending on the country. So one has to puzzle out why this one shoots so abnormally low, not waste money on all sorts of ammo.

Easy fix! Slide the rear sight up to get the vertical shot placement you want.

Once again, a photo would save reams of speculation. But a photo of the front sight might well reveal that the blade has been seriously filed down, as a fix for the usual high POI of ex-military Mausers. This is commonly done to get the POI into the black with a backsight leaf setting that can be varied to suit different types of ammo.

So Steve's answer is correct. The sight was probably so drastically shortened because a previous user was shooting lead bullets, at a much lower velocity than any jacketed bullet. There is nothing wrong in that, as you adjust the backsight leaf to suit, but if it bothers you, get a replacement foresight blade.

Post a photo of the foresight, so we can all see if I'm talking tripe!

[Aragorn243]

Milsurp Yugo is said to be good stuff. I have shot some of it in very limited quantities and never had an issue with it in both a K98 and an Egyptian Hakim. The Turk ammo is a little on the hot side compared to most other milsurps but that only really matters if you are shooting a Hakim. Stay away from the Syrian stuff.

[cipherk98]

I've also done extremely well with the Yugo M75. Both lots I have are from 1999 and shoot very well, even in my shot out gun. Be warned that even relatively new stuff like that is still corrosive and I think berdan primed, so not easily re-loadable. The old stuff is fine too but the M75 like what SGAmmo has right now is fantastic. I also agree the normal PPU is a bit under loaded though I've not shot the Match grade. Makes good brass for reloading though.

[Sentryduty]

Based on Patrick's numbers we are looking at a fixed drop rate of 0.22" per 100 fps change @ 100 yds, that really isn't a lot of elevation change versus velocity for sight regulation..

I think to best answer this question we would have to have a bit more specific information about the target and shooting conditions.

How big is the target "black" and where is your point of aim? Are you shooting with a 6 o'clock hold or otherwise? Or more accurately, how far below the point of aim (POA) is the point of impact (POI)?

I believe something could be a little out of sorts with this rifle's sights but it is important to establish the baseline before we work out solutions.

---------- Post added at 09:20 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:10 AM ----------

Once again, a photo would save reams of speculation. But a photo of the front sight might well reveal that the blade has been seriously filed down, as a fix for the usual high POI of ex-military Mausers. This is commonly done to get the POI into the black with a backsight leaf setting that can be varied to suit different types of ammo.

If the front sight were filed too low would that not raise the point of impact? A tall front sight should adjust POI lower by sighting the muzzle lower than the POA, correct? Been awhile since I tinkered with iron sights.