1905 Ross MkII w/MkIII sight

[smle addict]

Hello all,

First time posting on this forum; I'm somewhat of a regular over on the Lee Enfield Forum, but any and all 303's pique my interest, particularly the Ross series of rifles.

I purchased this two weeks ago, and just picked it up today after the 10-day wait (California). It's a commercial 1905 Ross Mk II with Mark III rearsight, no serial number

Rifle is in absolute beautiful condition. Very few small scratches in the wood with majority of finish remaining. The only wear appears to be on the floorplate and top of the butt-plate. I tried taking pics of the color-case hardening on the bolt. Photography is not my strong point.

Anyways, here are a few pics. The most interesting is the inscription etched on the butt-plate. I'll do a some research on this later.

The rifle came into a gun-shop in Culver City California, seven years ago. The owner recognized the rifle in scarce condition and had intentions of keeping it. He had it stored at his shop until the store manager mentioned the growing collection in the stock room. He decided it was time to winnow out his collection, and put it up for sale. He told me he remembered an older woman walking into his shop. All she could elaborate on was that it was in the family for many years. They were cleaning out the estate of a relative and the rifle surfaced. No one in the family showed any interest in the Ross, so she took it into the shop to liquidate.

Then I wandered in and spent the better part of a paycheck on it. It wasn't cheap, but I'm very pleased with it.

Hope you all enjoy the pics.

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[NORTHOF60]

A nice rifle, and a piece of Canadian history. Congratulations. I'm envious.

[gordon. byrne]

That is one absolute nice rifle ,the condition is outstanding.

[AGB-1]

Was it purchased from Martin B. Retting by chance? Thanks.
Very nice rifle.

[smle addict]

Thanks all, for the nice comments.

AGB-1; yes, this was purchased at Martin Retting. I only make it into this shop once or twice a year. They have a nasty habit of taking my paychecks! Two years ago, I was sick of being in traffic on the nearby freeway, so I stopped in to kill time. I wound up purchasing a Charger Loading Lee Metford and Magazine Lee Enfield Mk I!!!! Both were beautiful, and put me on the path to many overtime days to cover the costs.

I took the Ross apart last night to do some light cleaning, and I do emphasize LIGHT. The original grease had long since dried out, and was as hard as plastic. The magazine cut-off and transverse safety were frozen solid. Some penetrating oil and several cotton swabs restored their function. Re-assembled with a light coat of grease, and plenty of BLO for the stock. Oddly enough, I found paraffin wax packed under the barrel and around the action.

I did manage to find five serial numbers!

More pics...

[Surpmil]

I did manage to find five serial numbers!

More pics...

I'm not sure those are serial numbers despite appearing to be. Those numbers when seen, never seem to correspond to the rifle serial number, and Ross did not serial number bolts for some unknown reason.

[smle addict]

I did hear back from the IODE/Ontario. They have an excellent records-keeping department, and filled in the back story of Mr. Palmer and this Ross rifle. Very interesting reading:

"I understand that IODE Canada has been contacted by a gentleman asking for information about a Canadian manufactured rifle that he purchased at an estate sale in California.
An inscription on the butt-plate reads, “Presented by the Alexandra Chapter, Imperial Order Daughters of the Empire, To Upper Canada College, Won by CDP Palmer, 1908”.

Our student publication, College Times, includes the following reference in its Christmas 1908 issue page 6: Ross Rifle—Presented by the Alexandra Chapter of the Daughters of the Empire—C. D. B. Palmer.
I can see in The Roll of Pupils of Upper Canada College, Toronto: January 1830 to June 1916 that Charles Douglas Brydon Palmer attended the College as a boarder from 1907 to 1911. More details can be seen here: The roll of pupils of Upper Canada College, Toronto : January 1830 to June 1916 : Young, A. H. (Archibald Hope), 1863-1936 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

I can see from the Tenth Annual Report of the national chapter of Canada and its allied Associations that the Alexandra Chapter decided to present a rifle to Upper Canada College to encourage rifle shooting among the boys. More information can be seen here: Tenth Annual Report of the national chapter of Canada and its allied Associations : Imperial order of the daughters of the empire and the children of the empire : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive. H. W. Auden, Principal of Upper Canada College at this time is also listed as a member of the Advisory Board here: Tenth Annual Report of the national chapter of Canada and its allied Associations : Imperial order of the daughters of the empire and the children of the empire : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

(As a general FYI, further IODE publications can be seen here: Internet Archive Search: )

Other references to the Alexandra Chapter in College Times may provide more information in relation to the award of the rifles.

Easter issue 1908 page 7
The Rifle Company is more than keeping up the standard which was set last year. This term, as last, the right half company drilled on Tuesday and the left half on Thursday, and a good deal of hard work was done. The new equipment which was expected at the beginning of the term did not arrive until some weeks later, and some of the time while waiting was utilized by Sergeant Major Utton, for lectures on the different formations. These lectures were very interesting, illustrated as they were by scenes from the experiences of Sergeant Major Utton in the South African War. On the arrival of the new rifles the Company commenced hard drill in the gymnasium but for the last week or two, the corps has been drilling outside and put in some splendid work, showing well the results of their hard work during the winter.

The Company has entered a Physical Drill Squad in the coming Military Tournament. The squad will do the bayonet exercises, and although as yet there has not been much practice in this department they will no doubt be in very good shape. A range has been fitted up in the western basement, and we now have shooting with reduced ammunition without going down to the Armouries.
During the coming session, the Ross Rifle presented by the Alexandra Chapter will be contested for. The competition will take place as soon after the inspection as possible."

I did a simple genealogy check and found the family tree of Mr. Palmer. Interesting, in that family surname "Brydon" became "Bryson." Probably a spelling error...

Sometime after his school attendance, he emigrated to Culver City (Los Angeles County) California.

It seems Mr Palmer went by Douglas (with Bryson listed as a middle name), and I was able to find two Los Angeles, CA census records, listing "Douglas B. Palmer" as a Los Angeles resident. Both census' (1930 and 1940) list his place of birth as Ontario, Canada.

I also found the death certificate of Mr Palmer, b. 1890 Ont. CA, d.1968 Los Angeles County. He lived to 77 years of age. His descendants still reside in Culver City today.

A very gratifying investigation!

[AGB-1]

I used to get Rettings Catalog(flyers) in the early 60's. they always had neat items and they still have ads on Gun Broker.

[steveu]

Very nice rifle. You may want to use raw linseed oil instead of BLO due to the other chemical additives that speed up the drying process.
Cheers, Steve

[smle addict]

I took my new Ross out this morning for a quick range session. It did not disappoint! It is an accurate rifle with mild recoil. Target pic was best five-shot group at 100 yards.

I fired several handloads through it, and found it liked 150 grain sierras over IMR 4064. While accurate, it did odd things to the brass. Last pic are two cases, both HXP. Tarnished case was a factory military load fired through an Enfield No 4 I also brought along. The shinier case is a full-length sized HXP is use for my reloads. Check out that odd looking neck!