old 303 ammo

[Son]

smle13, you say you want to shoot what the rifle was meant to shoot. I'm assuming here (from your holy grail post) what you have is a 1905 BSA MKI*** (more on the designation later...)

The HV marking on the barrel means the sights had been set up to shoot MkVII ball, no longer being sighted for the MKVI.

The mods to the sights to fire MkVII was introduced in June 1911 with LoC # 15638. Sometime after this would have been when your rifle was changed from MkI* to MkI***. The fact it has the three "*" shows it has been through the mod.
(To have the HV mark it must have been through the mod, and must be a MkI***)

The reference to SC is the mod to the chamber of opening the small cone diameter out by .002". This modification was introduced through the List Of Changes (LoC # 21209) sometime between Dec 1917 and June 1918 and looks to have applied to the manufacture of new barrels after that date.

To sum up, all MkI*** rifles are sighted for MkVII, and unless they have had a barrel changed after 1918, they should not have the SC marking. (will take corrections to this- backed by photos of SC marks and barrel manufacture date)
MkVII is the correct ammo for your rifle, but the MkVI won't hurt it as long as you realize it might take a bit more cleaning afterwards.

Here's a link to a great MKL entry on the Sht LE MkI series of rifles by John Thorne. On the end I've posted a complete explanation to why they are not called "No1 Mk1" by the book. The terminology I'm told, first appeared used by early milsurp importers in the US.

1907 ShtLE (Short Lee-Enfield) MkI*** Rifle - Military Surplus Collectors Forums

[jmoore]

Son's most definitive answer makes your life rather easier, smle13, if you wish to display some cupro-nickel bulleted ammunition as "silver-colour" bulleted MkVII ammo was made even after WWII. (The post war stuff was mostly Italian, I think). Might not be C-N jackets, more likely mild steel, but it looks pretty much the same.

I think it might be a good idea to deactivate or remove the powder from the rounds if there is a possibility of unauthorized access to the display.

[John Sukey (Deceased)]

Again, the problem is where you are located and the postal regulations governing the shipment of live ammo.
I have some 1917 dated Mk6 but mailing it is just not possible.
Yes folks, I know it shouldn't exsist but that's what the headstamp says
KF VI 17

[TonyE]

Several points here:

As previously posted, Son's post says it all with regard to the modifications to the rifle and the "HV" and "SC" stamps.

However, there are a couple of misconceptions stated. British military .303 inch ammunition continued to use cupro-nickel jacketed bullets until WW2. It was not until about 1943 when gilding metal clad steel envelopes began to be used extensively, although armour piercing ammunition used cupro-nickel clad steel. It was not until the mid 1950s that gilding metal alone was used.

John - your 1917 dated Mark VI is perfectly correct. Although the Mark VII was approved in 1910 for British service, the colonies continued to manufacture and use Mark VI. Australian production did not switch to Mark VII until February 1918 and India changed about the same time. Canada had changed earlier, but continued to make quantities of Mark VI until the end of the war.

smle13 - there were no lead bulleted .303 in British service, all from the Mark I black powder load onwards were jacketed. There were a number of short range or gallery practice rounds with short lead bullets introduced in Canada, India and New Zealand but these were not adopted in British service. The four marks of British short range cartridges all had jacketed bullets.

Finally, the modern Kynamco Mark VI type 215 grain loads are gilding metal (copper coloured) jacketed.

Regards
TonyE

[Son]

I have several dozen MkVI and MkII rounds. I'll have to do some fresh pics of the headstamps. Many are WW1 vintage Aussie production.

[smle13]

thanks so much! all of your posts were greatlu helpful to me. I do have some 180 gr. round nosed .303 ammo so I think I might shoot that. but ill keep looking for rare 303 ammo!

Thanks!!

[TonyE]

Are you based in the UK?

.303 Mark VI ammo is not rare or even scarce in UK ammo collector circles, and it would not be hard to find a dozen or so rounds, but as others have said, the real hard part is getting it to you!

The real rare .303 ball round is the Mark III hollow nose, so if you find one headstamped "R^L C III" please let me know at once!

Cheers
TonyE

[smle13]

great!

[smle13]

i am taking my smle no.1 mk1*** out shooting in a few weeks, just have to get it cheaked out by the gunsmith first.

[TonyE]

smle13 - See the link in Son's post regarding the nomenclature of your rifle! It is a Rifle, Short, Magazine Lee Enfield Mark I***, not a No.1 Mark 1***.

A small point, but it is important to be accurate about these things.

Regards
TonyE