No4 MkI T

[Brit plumber]

I must have been very lucky with my FLO (Cumbria). I was applying for a few calibres and he asked me if I planned to buy any others in the future. I said I did when money allowed and he said well apply for them now and save the cost of a variation. I was very impressed with the way he conducted his interview and his approach to licensing.

[IanS]

Thanks again for the feedback.

In response to Alan, I've been a member of a muzzle loading/black powder club for a year + "served" as a "probationary" period. They also have an annual shoot at Bisley, most members have a .303 Lee Enfield as well as other calibre rifles and percussion revolvers. I'm applying for the FAC for percussion revolvers with or without permission for .303 rifle. My referees will be either 2 magistrates or 1 magistrate and the club secretary. If I'm unlucky, it won't matter too much, as long as I get the revolvers, but it would be nice to get the No4 T if it's genuine.

Responding to Cinders and Surpmil, yes, I tried to get my dad to let me video his experiences to which he agreed a couple of years ago. When I visited him with all the gear, he chickened out, because of the memories of all his lost friends. I'm out in BC in May and he has agreed to let me video his stories, I hope he will do it as some of the stories are quite something. Here's one, but not a sniping tale.

When he was involved in the Battle of the Bulge, winter of '44, he succumbed to pneumonia and to recuperate, he was sent back from the front. While he was away, his 8 man squad of snipers were co-opted with others to take mines up to the front. The armourer armed the mines before they were carried to the line. There was a line of men with live mines trekking up to the front, a German mortar bomb exploded close to the leading man. This triggered the first mine which then triggered the second mine and so on down the line. The entire column was killed, all 40 men including my dad's entire squad.

You can see why they don't want to talk about most of their experiences. As a sniper, his war was a bit different to that of the ordinary private and their stories need to be recorded.

Have sent some photos to Badger who will put them up for you all to comment on, I hope!
Regards,
Ian.

[CINDERS]

Battle of the Bulge was as bad as it could get as the weather was almost as bad if not worse than the enemy why would a group of trained and skilled observers and tacticians be utilised to place mines and armed ones at that.
Its a bit like having a Lancasters bomb load armed before it left the bomb dump yeah real smart! Sorry for the loss of you Dads squad sometimes the powers that be get mixmastered who can say perhaps they felt obliged to assist only they would know....

[Ridolpho]

IanS: When you're out in BC in May you should consider posting an invitation for a BC No. 4T owner to meet up with you and your father along with his rifle and kit. That would be an exceptional opportunity for a collector to meet an individual like your father and show his "T" to one of the original users. As far as owning a "T", there's no questioning the appeal. However, they're not really any more entertaining for casual shooting than any other No. 4 (I get my biggest blast out of shooting my No. 5 carbine). Given the difficult task of finding a "T" that's both affordable and absolutely genuine, maybe you should consider looking for an excellent example of it's main progenitor- a typical BSA No. 4. Your father probably trained with one like it (or a No.1 or maybe a No. 3).

Ridolpho

[IanS]

Pics attached to help assess rifle ....




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[IanS]

HI Cinders, there would be a full blown enquiry today if such a thing happened.

Ridolpho, great idea about a meetup, is there anybody close enough to Barriere I wonder. I'll have a word with my dad. I and both of my sons fly in to Calgary on the 3rd May, 3.30 pm and will take a rental car to Barriere, stopping off at Golden or Revelstoke on the way.
You're probably right about an ordinary No4, I actually shot a No4 MkII at Bisley in 1966, it was an inter-office shoot out organised by the gun club at the company I worked for then, not fired one since.

Not long after arriving in Calgary, my dad entered a competition with a pal just after buying their Lee Enfields for $28.00 each. I'm told he won against guys who competed at Bisley, the competition was organised by Calgary Gun Club,
is it still going? He told me he shot a mountain goat at 900 yards using iron sights. Both were in mid fifties I think.
Ian.

---------- Post added at 03:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:19 PM ----------

Thanks for putting up the pics Badger, I look forward to the feedback whether the gun is "original" or not.
Ian.

[Roger Payne]

Ian,
Don't waste your money on it, it's a modern assembly. If you're ever in the Birmingham area feel free to contact me & I'll show you some real ones. The rifle is a standard post-war refurbed Savage that has been modded to Mk1/3 & as someone alluded to earlier, the highish serial number arouses suspicions right from the outset. The scope is real & so is the transit chest, though the latter has of course been refurbished. If you get a chance to look at some genuine 4T's on previous threads on this or other forae you will see that the front pad is totally wrong on this one - not even a passable copy.

Best.

[IanS]

Hi Roger,
thanks for the feedback, so the rifle is probably genuine inasmuch as it is a Savage No4 MkI* that was FTR'd in 53 and possibly modded to look like a No4 T sometime after, whether a "con" or not. Not one to buy then. I'll have a look at the examples you mentioned.
If I get the chance, I'll certainly make contact and take you up on your offer.
Thanks again,
Ian

[Beerhunter]

Many years ago when my opinion was still being sought on Personal Computer matters, I always counselled that one should "buy a dealer", rather by a PC. This goes double for expensive piece of kit like a No.4T. Roger fits that bill.

BTW, just one comment on Alan's FAC advice. One does not need to find the gun before getting the FAC "slot" for it. (Unless it is a Section 7 which a No.4T isn't.) When you apply for your FAC, just ask for "one .303 rifle" and your good reason is "Target Shooting".

[HOOKED ON HISTORY]

Great mission and a great thread.