Essay on British army new sniper rifle ....

[Thunderbox]

The irony is that, in UK at least, actual sniping is arguably the least important role for a sniper. In military terms, causing one or two enemy casualties has virtually no tactical value compared with the sniper's potential contribution to ISTAR (Intelligence, Surveillance, Target Acquisition, and Reconnaissance). Nearly all formation HQs now bundle snipers in with the other ISTAR assets, and assign them surveillance and reconnaissance tasks. Even though snipers in recent years have come up with "material destruction" as a justification for their existence (and nice new big-bore rifles....), shooting at a jeep or a radar set with a rifle looks a bit silly when that sniper is (usually) a subordinate callsign to a fire support coordination cell that has under command some or all or arty, mortars, UAV, air, NGS, etc.

[gunner]

"Material destruction" a kind of stupidity, to me ! Hard work to carry those Monsterguns through the landscape for miles to deliver a shot on a target wich can simply be replaced. And all for the risk to lose well trained men. This is a job for other ones.

Regards

Gunner

[Brian Dick]

Gunner, It was ten years after the Vietnam conflict and most of the weapons we had were very tired except for the freshly introduced but flawed M249 SAW's and the wonderful 60mm mortars which were sparkling new and well loved by the weapons platoons. We armorers had quite a time keeping everything up and running but like all Armies, we mananged well with what we had. It kept me quite busy and well, almost out of trouble!! There was a lot of "high horse trading" going on between the infantry battalions. I wonder if it's still like that today??

[gunner]

Brian,
trading between different parts of troops is an current issue. We called it " Interne Querversorgung". If you want a part of a rifle, truck or whatever, it is common and really faster to take the phone and ask other infantry divisions if they have what you need, than to go the official way.

Regards

Gunner

[sniper3]

Correct me, if I'm wrong but is it not a snipers role to take out an intended target in a safe and secure manner to himself. The whole idea of sniper training is to get 1st shot on target (that is why it is called one shot one kill). The bolt action rifle as comapred to semi-auto/auto rifles is, I believe, is to shoot his quarry and not get decected. You might as well have a squad of marksmen to do the shooting, which would be just as good.

[Gnr527]

The following might be of interest:-

new sharpshooter rifle for british army not HK417

[Surpmil]

From my chairborne perspective, a few comments:

1. Re: destroying materiel, despite the high cost of trained snipers and their kit, they're a lot cheaper than missiles or jet a/c, their pilots and ordnance. They're also a lot quieter and more deniable.

2. If a semi-auto can be had that loses nothing significant in accuracy or reliability compared to a bolt action, it must be preferable. With a brass catcher bag and 10-20 rd mag, movement is minimal. Working a bolt takes time and requires visible movement if done with the rifle in the shoulder. If done very slowly with the rifle canted to the ground it takes much longer. Full hides that conceal such movement are often not available. An immediate follow up shot is impossible with a bolt action.

3. Situations occur in combat where covering noise, flash, smoke etc. from other arms make it possible for snipers to fire repeatedly and rapidly. This is obviously done faster with a semi-auto rifle. In WWI the Germans often sited snipers in a fan in front of MG positions. The fire of the MGs, effectively masked the shooting of the snipers. One Canadian sniper in WWI claimed to have fired over 200 rounds in a day from one section of trench. Another shot down the gunners of an entire German battery one after another (a well known event in the literature) Slow single shots may be the preferred method, but why not have the capability to handle ALL scenarios?

And to give credit where due, it was the USA and CSA who first fielded units of snipers equipped with telescope-sighted rifles. In the 20th Century, Germany was first in the field, soon followed by the Allies.

[Peter Laidler]

Anti material work is usuall left to mortars in our Army. 2 rounds of 81mm mortar in quick succesion is both cheap and usually very successful. The snipers are semi trained as artillery and mortar spotters too

[PrinzEugen]

News story out today - a rather bizarre twist to the new 'sharpshooter' rifles for the army:

Ministry of Defence orders 'Bible guns' for soldiers in Afghanistan - Telegraph

Edit - apologies linked to the wrong one - new link above

[Edward Horton]

In the Air Force all that maters is the capacity of the bomb bay and having a large group size.

Why fire just one shot when you can call the Air Force and totally vaporize the target.