Culver's M1 Carbine Forum

[Hooks]

Those two guys really went after each other on the subject.

Good thing they weren't in the same room.

Had they been in the same room the conversation probably would have been more civil. Least that is my experience with folks.

[painter777]

Harlan,
Like cleaning dried 2 cycle oil out of your carb.

Charlie

[painter777]

Keep in mind that the final Zinc Chromate wash works as a neutralizing rinse. It's basically topcoating/sealing in the Phosphate Park plus adding to the corrosion resistance. This is a very thin coat.. more or less not measureable thus not affecting any final parts fit.
If the tinted green chromate I spoke of was used, a freshly parked finish could very well take on a green hue, depth of color dependant on the strength of mix and hardness of the surface it was to be applied to.

It's original purpose was adopted for use on sea going vessels and steel bridges near salt water, because of it's corrosion resistance.
Did you know that Zinc Phosphate can be stained or painted?
Did you know that Pressure treated lumber is treated with Zinc Chromate among other chemicals?

When wire brushing, buffing, sand blasting or even solvent cleaning the
degradation of the top coat will expose the underlying phosphate coats color.
A very likely cause of you seeing a change in color.

Other factors to take into account that may or may not enhance or degrade the green color are,
Chemical make up of cleaning solvents, exposure to UV rays, water and temperature or if the item in question ever had the green hue ( Tinted Chromate ) to start with.

Also keep in mind that with the standards of today compared to before 1985 or so, it's very unlikely you'd be able to put the same strength solutions together today.

As far as 'Experimenting' you might want to look over the safety data sheets. On jobs that we spray Zinc Chromate, you have your spacesuit on. In tight or confined areas you have to pull your confined space permits and use the buddy system. Supplied air along with air (levels) monitoring is a must in these conditions. Decontamination showers and blood testing comes with the territory also. Documented proof has to be provided per each mans exposure time and to what levels.

In my opinion, experimenting without the proper research is a deadly game.

Safety link,
Occupational Safety and Health Guideline for Zinc Chromate

JMO,
Charlie-painter777

[Tired Retired]

.... look over the safety data sheets. On jobs that we spray Zinc Chromate, you have your spacesuit on. In tight or confined areas you have to pull your confined space permits and use the buddy system. Supplied air along with air (levels) monitoring is a must in these conditions. Decontamination showers and blood testing comes with the territory also. Documented proof has to be provided per each mans exposure time and to what levels.

Hmmmm, there goes the Government getting in the way of gun -lovers again.... Kinda sounds like all those "revenuers" trying to take the 'shine away during Prohibition.... next Washington will be issuing 4 page safety instructions on how to go to the bathroom so that you don't get paper cuts from the toliet paper .....

Seriously, its actually very tragic all the harm done out of sheer ignorance to those just trying to support our defense industry... chemicals that were common place in WWI, WWII and Korea are (thankfully) outlawed or controlled today. I would say that Benzine, Asbestos, Lead and Mercury have killed as many men and women in our defense industries over the years as those dying in combat from enemy bullets...

As far as the park chemicals and limits to modern experimenting, what has the surviving old timers who used to do those park-job credit the green tint to?

[Mizzouboy]

IMHO, the "green" or "brown" color is due to oxidized oil. Once removed it is easy to restore. You only have to oil the gun and wait 60+ years and it will be back. Seriously, baked-on vegetable oils on cookware can have much the same appearance. The mineral oils used on guns take much longer to oxidize, but they eventually will; remember all the gummed up parts in old firearms? Perhaps some stray linseed oil on the metal parts may be part of the color as well?

[Bob K]

Those two guys really went after each other on the subject.

Good thing they weren't in the same room.

Yeah,
I don't know if I will ever post there again. You have to be very careful of what you say and not make any mistakes or they will rip you apart. Not very friendly...Here is an example of someone who called a "bullet" a bullet tip.
http://www.jouster.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4774
They even started a whole new thread on the subject.Why??? Nothing better to do??
http://www.jouster.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5066
I may not agree with the poster calling them trolls, but I think they need to grow up a bit.

[painter777]

All that over a guy's Want to Sell Ad?
My first time back there and I sure don't miss any of that name calling and gang banging.
That's why having Moderators that stay involved keeps this site worth coming back to.
Wonder what would happen if a guy called a Magazine a clip?
Beheading? Tar and Feathered ?
Geeeezzzee........................................ ...................

As PBI say's.........
In the Spirit of Collecting
and may I add........
And the Interest in the History.

[JimF4M1s (Deceased)]

You might want to watch what you say Charlie. Some of those on there visit both forums and might "turn you in". Then all of a sudden you become a bad guy.

Let them play the way they want. When it gets too bad, hopefully their yard monitor will give them a time out or put them in a corner.

[Chuckindenver]

truth be known, i was one of the ones the got it going...
for one reason.
after i said i didnt agree with someones post, they went crazy with it..
and i poked the hornets nest, only to prove a point.. a couple actually.
first,,
that nobody really knows exactly for sure what the green hue is on all zinc phosphate finishes..
and second.. just to show how far some guys will go, just for the sake of argument.
for the record.
im the same here on line, as i am face to face, or in a room..
ask anyone here who has met me.
actually im a bit more friendly on line..lol..
i save the real smack for face to face..much more fun that way.
my take on all these forums.
they area great place for information, and we can all learn so much, and share informantion about something we all enjoy.
unfortunatly some users, like to get snippy, flame, or attack somone that has another view, or calls something the wrong name, spells wrong,
or just doesnt know..
iv been saying for years, that we all need to welcome new users, and welcome them into our little clicks.
when we die, all that info will be gone as well, if we share it, and open our minds, it will live on in the minds and hearts of others.
iv seen so many new users, or users that have a lot to offer to these forums, chased off by bad additudes.
a couple i know have some very large collections of guns we would all be happy to have.
one guy, has some of his guns pictured in all the wonderful books we all read.
most of these forums. M1 Carbine, Garand, Krag, ect have a couple grouchy guys that seem to know a lot about those rifles, for some reason dont like to share..{then why be on a public forum?}
when someone has a different take, want, need, or lack of of knowlage, they seem to go out of the way to make them look bad..
and that guy never comes back...duuuh wonder why..
so, all in all....lets be friendly, make new friends, and share..:}
its ok to not agree with someones opinion on something..
and its ok to no agree with a fact, and show them what you know..
just be nice, and do it with class.

[phil441]

Well, I'll admit it.

I still go to Culver's regularly, but seldom venture far from the "Gun Talk" forum. That forum is still friendly and accepting of diverse views. But it's mostly about "light" politics and news stories.
It stays good-natured and most of the participants seem to be good guys.
(I hope I didn't just poison the water there.)

But once you venture into the specialized forums, you're kinda on your own. Those forums are where you'll find the hard-headed and self-proclaimed "experts" holding their ground. Some very knowledgeable folks are there, but there always seem to be challenges from someone.

Edit:
Well, my slow typing put me in line behind Chuckindenver but he just posted my thoughts very nicely.