Mauser 1887 spandau model 71/84 11mm ammunition reloading

[84mmcarl-gustav]

Hello,i know i little bit in black powder,igot a knight revolution,but now this mauser m71/84 cal 11mm(.43) is a different beast,i need somme info to reloaded those carthridge,i got bullet,casing,die.
what recipe i need,the wad is use for purpose,need lub too?_________________

Information

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[AKA Hugh Uno]

There are plenty of reloading recipes on the internet. it's a big case, so you might want to use some type of case filler (I have used poly pillow ticking with success) with some powders. My best results were with drop-tubed black powder or IMR 4198 (around 31 grains I think). These days, I would go with Trail Boss to the bullet base as a first option. there are a few tricks to this rifle, so the NRA disassembly book is also helpful.

look under .43 Mauser reloading data for loads under google, or you can go here as a start.

loading for the 43 Mauser/ 11mm Mauser [Archive] - Cast Boolits

[smellie]

Back when there was really good ammo being made in Canada AND sold to he public, C-I-L used to load the .43 Mauser with smokeless as a standard hardware-store item. It sold for $3.65 a box of 20, which was a bit of a shock: I only paid $3 for the Carbine!

I took one apart once, just out of curiosity. The powder was irregular, looked like tiny little balls of cat-food or something: it was PINK. It was VERY fast stuff, too.

A lot of guys use SR-4759 in these rifles. You can use SR-4759 in most black-powder cartridge rifles if you load the SR-4759 at 38 per cent of the black-powder charge. Being that the Mauser round was, in the US system, a .43-77-386, you could load 29 grains of the SR-4759 and you should get original performance at original pressures. The stuff is so very quick that you really shouldn't require a wad, but the rifle is always the boss.

SR-4759 is the very last of the old-time 'Bulk" powders, although it can't actually be loaded bulk-for-bulk. It DOES work very well as a Black substitute at the 38-percent level and it usually doesn't leave unburned powder grains all over the place, as will IMR-4198 a lot of the time.

DO have fun Mousering!

[jmoore]

If you decide to use black powder, just find a volume that needs about 2mm or 1/16" (very rough estimates, basically a "tad") of compression to seat the bullet of choice and its cardboard wad (waxed is good here, generally). Originally, the bullets were paper patched, you may want to try that as well if you feel adventurous.

Patrick Chadwick may have some posts, search under his name. I'm pretty sure there was a lengthy thread about this cartridge that has been inactive for only a few months. I'd find it for you, but time is VERY limited on my end right now.

[Patrick Chadwick]

Please look up the thread "To carry on where we left off...Smokeless in a Mauser M1871 or 71/84" and read the lot before you make any decisions or spend any money!

I have now given up using a card wad between the grease cookie and the bullet. As the bullet is heavily greased anyway, I decided that the wad was not only a waste of time and space, but there was a possibility of it sticking to the base and spoiling the flight on exiting the muzzle. The field-test result was 2nd place in the national championship of the Arquebusiers de France in May of this year. I really, really recommend that you try my recipe and forget about using anything else but black powder in your BPCRs.

Patrick

[84mmcarl-gustav]

thank you all for the information

[singleshotman]

Back in the old days i used to use lyman 439186 bullets unsized, cast soft and they'd shoot good with about 80 grains FFG blackpowder.Of course you'd have to clean every five shots if you didn't want to have the bullets go everyplace. I found some smokeless loads no good-like the one quoted in cartridges of the world(35 grins 3031).What a joke, fire gun, hear primer go off and bullet poops out at muzzle, powder doesn't go off.New lazy way to slug barel? I built a new shooter only from a package of three from SOG's junk, now i 'm thinking of selling it,if anyone is interested in it email me cagunsmith@aol.com

[Patrick Chadwick]

Of course you'd have to clean every five shots if you didn't want to have the bullets go everyplace.

Dear Singleshotman,

if you would be so good as to read my musings on this subject (search for "To carry on where we left off" on the Mauser forum) you will see that I took some trouble to explain just why it is a good idea to have a grease cookie under the bullet. And you have found out the hard (i.e. hard fouling) way that this idea is not just airy-fairy theory but hard (or soft?) practice. Don't give up on your smoke generator, just follow my recommended method, and you will have a load that may not be perfect, but is a PDG first approximation.

What a joke, fire gun, hear primer go off and bullet poops out at muzzle, powder doesn't go off.

Yeah, I had that firing a commercial smokeless load in my Long Range Sharps, except that the bullet did not pop out. I had let a friend try it out. After the pop we both looked at each other, and then unloaded the rifle to look through the barrel. The powder was unburnt in the case, but the bullet was stuck in the barrel, just far enough down that it would have been possible to load and fire another cartridge. Potentially very, very dangerous. I have not fired another nitro-shot in a BPCR since then.

I think the explanation is that if you have just 35gn of nitro powder rattling around in a BPCR case it all just sits on the bottom. The primer flash passes over the powder and is sufficient to drive the bullet out of the case, and there is no pressure build-up to really get the nitro going. I have not yet (avoiding the use of that provocative word "never") heard of this flash-by effect occuring with blackpower. If BP starts going bang, it keeps going. And increasing pressure accelerates the ignition.

Take a look at the biggest rifles still in existence (at least, I hope there still are a few left!) - the 16" rifles on the Iowa class battleships.
The powder charges include a blackpowder igniter charge around the igniter cartridge. And that is (was?) surely not for sentimental reasons, but to ensure rapid, reliable ignition of a great mass of nitro powder.

Sorry to be a bore about this, but I must repeat BPCRs are Black Powder Cartridge Rifles, not nitro poppers!

[GunStuff]

There are plenty of reloading recipes on the internet. it's a big case, so you might want to use some type of case filler (I have used poly pillow ticking with success) with some powders. My best results were with drop-tubed black powder or IMR 4198 (around 31 grains I think). These days, I would go with Trail Boss to the bullet base as a first option. there are a few tricks to this rifle, so the NRA disassembly book is also helpful.

look under .43 Mauser reloading data for loads under google, or you can go here as a start.

loading for the 43 Mauser/ 11mm Mauser [Archive] - Cast Boolits

Hugh, have you personally tried a full case of Trail Boss in your gun or are you just wanting someone else to try it in their old 11mm Mauser?

[Calif-Steve]

Not so sure I would load up my 11mm Mauser cartridge case to the brim with Trail Boss. Black powder, OK. But I would need some real Trail Boss data.