No 4 1/2 and 1/3's

[krinko]

Here's a typical BSA made barrel for the conversion program----1954 dated. The barrel on my 1957 dated Mk1/2 is just like this one--1954--so there is still time for the machinery to be sold to Wah in the mid-fifties, even with the program lasting into 1957.
By that time it must have been pretty difficult to flog bolt guns in even the backwaters of the AK47 world.

Here's the proof off the same barrel, though----if this is just commercial work, why the military proof?
I admit to trying to read the section on British proof rules in "The Standard Directory Of Proof Marks", but it gave me a headache.
-----krinko

Attachment 14824Attachment 14825

[spinecracker]

Without any doubt, BSA used their machinery to do their own huge commercial FTR programmes and bought up vast amounts of small arms from UK Ordnance for commercial sale to whoever wanted vast amounts of it!

And yet examples do not seem to appear too often, except for Spike, who appears to be a magnet for these rifles lol. Spike's examples also appear to be in very good condition, so maybe some didn't get to Africa? I wonder how many are still in crates somewhere in Africa because who wants a bolt action when you can get an AK47? The one I have been looking at has the old "England" import mark and is in pretty good condition, with almost all of the suncorite(?) finish being intact.

[Peter Laidler]

As a matter of interest, I had the Ministry of Supply/ Crown Agents and BSA contracts story I mentioned confirmed to me this morning by a c.1952 Ministry of Supply engineer. They were not permitted to build new rifles after the ceassation of their last contract. They DID however manufacture spare parts under ongoing contracts to help in shortages etc etc and bottlenecks at Fazakerley. They also supplied Enfield with rifle spare parts when Enfield were doing rifle FTR work too

[MJ1]

This is a lot to digest and I will have to readit twice or more to get the full picture. Thanks for all the effort put forward by everyone.

...MJ...

[Peter Laidler]

The factory managers at Enfield utilised BSA for their No4 rifle and Bren spare parts while they were doing FTR's. Only the Bren parts that they were geared up for of course....... There had always been a long standing friendship between the two at high level. Indeed, one of the main driving forces behind the Bren and Browning .303" machine gun went to work there JUST before the war. A chap called Reginald Shepherd. Yes, that's the man..........., the S of STEN gun. Knowing that he was shortly to leave the Army and would need a job, he also took to BSA the manufacture of the Boys rifle too. And it was also him that got BSA the massive Sten contract too. Today we call it 'networking'. Nice work if you can ge it

[spinecracker]

One last question on this thread that has dug up so much interesting information (I will have to put my anorak on before reading it again) - when did Fazakerley stop FTRing No.4 Mk.1s or Mk.1*s WITHOUT updating them to Mk.1/2 or Mk.1/3 configuration? (OK, that sounds like a confusing question, but it made sense when I was typing it!). Were rifles FTRed after 1949 without updating the trgger mounting arrangement? Any ideas?

[rhodders]

I have a 1943 longbranch N04 mk1* action on a heavy cr 7.62 barrel with no FTR markings, bolt and action matching but with the action hung trigger of the later mods did some slip through the net ?

rhodders

[Peter Laidler]

Rhodders, it might be me, but can you re-phrase the question................. Did some slip through the net? If you mean were some Mk1*'s NOT upgraded/modified to Mk1/3 spec, then yes, hundreds of thousands of them!

[Thunderbox]

I have a 1943 longbranch N04 mk1* action on a heavy cr 7.62 barrel with no FTR markings, bolt and action matching but with the action hung trigger of the later mods did some slip through the net ?

rhodders

Thats possibly a gunsmith-converted action - particularly if its been turned into a 7.62mm target rifle. Braze-on trigger blocks were available through the Trade at one time. E.g. AJ Parker used to turn out converted rifles with no FTR marks. Unlike with the military conversions, the blocks I've seen were pre-shaped for the forend screw.

[Peter Laidler]

That's interesting Thunderbox, the notion of pre machined trigger blocks ready to braze on.......................... Is that for real? I ask because the actual block in unfinished form was brazed in place then machined afterwards, on the rifle so that everything was in its exact diametric position, such as the axis pinhole, all in relation to the body and not the block.

We would occasionally see them loose in Base Workshops so we'd just knock them off and ZF the rifle. My friend fitted one to his No5 when he rebarrelled it to 7.62mm using an L4 Bren barrel

Ooooops, wrong word there. I meant geometric and not diametric