Combining a DP Enfield, a Shooter and a Gunsmith ended up with catastrophic failure!

[Edward Horton]

Below is a link to a posting in another Enfield forum where a buyer is angry because he thinks he bought a defective Enfield Rifle because it has a gas vent hole in the side of the receiver.

As a Quality Control Inspector we were taught the following.
"97% of all errors are human errors and only 3% are actual mechanical failures"


Major Enfield bummer!

http://www.gunandgame.com/forums/enf...ld-bummer.html

[SDoldiron]

First, Old Joe, along with everyone else, I hope that you recover fast and find the time to enjoy another enfield.
I find myself only a small step ahead of where you were a week ago. I thought that I knew something about Enfield Rifles, until I started reading here. I've enjoyed the info here that those in the know have posted and shared. I would agree with nick, and maybe it is already out there, a checklist for the enfields so those of us who enjoy old rifles, yet don't have a long history with them, could use.
Get well quick Old Joe and thanks for sharing, and for me anyway, the heads up with what is possible.

[Edward Horton]

Hi Peter,

Well for those of us that are NOT Armourer's, it would be nice to know the basic steps/checklist that are taken when a rifle reaches ones bench as part of the overall assessment of the item in question.

Aside from a detail strip to check for the obvious abuse/condition/anomaly, what are the things that come to mind that the average person can do to inspect the weapon before the range and firing?

Look back to the thread I had on the No1 Mk111 that you so kindly commented on about yellow markings on AUS rifles. I was told the rifle was good to go..... So the easiest thing I could do was buy a Field Gauge. The rifle failed easily...what would/could have happened if it was fired? Dunno...don't want to know...!

A collective checklist of obvious and not so obvious visual and or gauge inspection items would be a nice thing to see!

"All the information in the world is written in books, and all you have to do is read"

Below links to Badgers Lee Enfield On-line Knowledge Libraries (Index of Articles)

1991 No.4 (All Marks) .303 Rifle Maintenance Instructions

https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=3322


Instructions for Armourers -1931 (Part 2 - Small Arms)

https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=875

And one missing from the Knowledge Libraries



On an aircraft you have a pre-flight inspection carried out by a trained and experienced mechanic who knows what he is looking at and what to look for during the inspection. When the pilot arrives he also does a walk around inspection of the aircraft before take off. At the end of the inspection the pilot signs the aircraft forms accepting the aircraft for flight.

Mr. Laidler was taught to be an Armourer and has years of experience, the rest of us are still in the learning phase and have much to learn.

[Claven2]

A lesson to take away from all this is to ALWAYS disassemble any new milsurp and check it over for obvious faults BEFORE firing it. On Enfields, for example, there are a number of potential problems you can spot that could be problematic. Holes in the receiver are only one thing. Others include areas where welds have been ground away to make a firearm operable gain, Locking recesses that have been milled away as part of a demil job, disintegrated or badly cracked draws in the forestock are but a few.

I've seen some real horror stories over the years. A couple I saw recently included a Chinese military SKS where the knox form had a 1.5" long slot milled into the BOTTOM of it so it could only be seen with the forestock off. this was part of a large import batch and the dealer had no way of seeing it, but the owner caught the problem in a detail strip before firing.

Another was a Steyr M95 long rifle still in 8x50. Same issue, the bottom half of the knox form and part of the receiver ring was completely milled away, but it could still have been chambered and fired. A friend had me inspect it for him as he was going to reload for it and shoot it - only thing that prevented an earlier accident was the lack of available ammo!

What we should maybe do is start posting photos of demilled rifles and what features make them demilled and therefore unsafe and sticky it in the general discussion forum. Thoughts?

[Nickjc]

What we should maybe do is start posting photos of demilled rifles and what features make them demilled and therefore unsafe and sticky it in the general discussion forum. Thoughts?

+1

IMO not only demilled weapons but other area of interest for obvious fault or potential problem areas to search for failure.

Granted NOT ALL visual inspections can spot a failure waiting to happen...but a primer list of areas to inspect can go a long way to help others before they reach the firing line....

Just my .02

[enfield303t]

To say Old Joe has a responsibility here is absured. He has stated what he was told by the shop owner and the gun owner. We should inspect all our firearms but does that mean we trust the guy shooting next to us has done the same when he offers to let us shoot his new acquisition?? We all assume that a gun we purchase from a gun shop is in decent condition and yes common sense says take a very good look at it. If we distrust any and all guns then we should not shoot any other than our own. Old Joe is a VICTIM and should be treated as such.

The idea Old Joe would be laughed out of court is wrong, I remember the HUGE settlement to the person that bought a motorhome, put it on cruise control, left the drivers seat to go make a sandwich and crashed. Settlement was staggering and the defence was it didn't warn you in the manual you couldn't do that. Old Joe lives in the USA where litigation is viewed by some as a national sport.

This is a legitimate claim and would be judged as such.

[Old Joe]

Old Joe is a VICTIM and should be treated as such.

Thank you for weighing in 303t, but I certainly owe it to myself to do as complete inspection as I can before I fire any weapon. I never knew the DMIL history behind the DP stamp so I would never imagine someone just drilling a hole completely through the chamber. The nice condition of the weapon gave me a perhaps false sense of security. Though it would have been nice with my diligence to catch the short commings of the gunsmith, he was paid to catch problems like these so yes I will attempt to hold him accountable on some level for the quality of his work. The Gunshop owner,a friend of mine, was with me when it happend and looked whiter than me..visited me in the hospital with his wife and has called me ever day to ask how I've been doing. he was as shocked as I was and had handled the weapon himself. My wife dropped me by the shop yesterday and I basicly said "Stuff happens." and bought a Charter arms 44 special since I wont be shooting rifle for a month or so.

I will make sure to PM you with the results of my future efforts and I think a pre check list for Enfields or any mllsurp would be great.

Old Joe

[Peter Laidler]

303t, I know it's getting off the subject a tad but I think a quick internet search will pull up that the motorhome saga was an urban myth. A veriation exists but nothing like the urban myth that has been doing the rounds for 20 years now. But if it was a motorhome that didn't have any brakes............................................ .

[Amatikulu]

Having re-read this thread, I noticed that Joe says the seller actually bought 20 of these DP'd rifles.

I hope that the seller has been notified of the dangerous condition and these remaining rifles have not been put up for sale.

I'd hate to see anyone else get hurt.

[Old Joe]

I hope that the seller has been notified of the dangerous condition and these remaining rifles have not been put up for sale.

I'd hate to see anyone else get hurt.

I believe he had a gunsmith modifiy between 5-10 to sell. I bought mine so quickly that he left a second rifle he had in the car at my friends shop. When the situation happened and my friend got back to the shop he called the seller to inform him of what happened and gave him the second one back. The second was identical to the first except there was no hole bored in the chamber.

Old Joe