My Saginaw S'G'

[USGI]

This is really interesting! I recently purchased what I believe to be an original S'G' that has a s/n in the 1829XXX range. It has many of the same parts markings as yours, but not all of them. My front sight has a number "7" stamped on the LH side of the base, and the "N" is upright as viewed from the back of the sight. Your "N" looks like it might be what's referred to as a "sidewards N" or Z. Most think these sights were supplied by two different manufacturers, but I think they were both made by Niedner Rifle Co. Where is the IN marking located on your safety, and is it Type 2 Var 2 plain? Warbaby! states that the IN safety is marked on the inside somehere as supplied to NPM. Mine has this same type of safety, but I can't find a mark on it anywhere. It has really rough semi-circular machine marks on both ends, and there is possilbly a light mark on one end, but I can't make out what it says. Thanks, Bob

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[Maniac]

This is really interesting! I recently purchased what I believe to be an original S'G' that has a s/n in the 1829XXX range. It has many of the same parts markings as yours, but not all of them. My front sight has a number "7" stamped on the LH side of the base, and the "N" is upright as viewed from the back of the sight. Your "N" looks like it might be what's referred to as a "sidewards N" or Z. Most think these sights were supplied by two different manufacturers, but I think they were both made by Niedner Rifle Co. Where is the IN marking located on your safety, and is it Type 2 Var 2 plain? Warbaby! states that the IN safety is marked on the inside somewhere as supplied to NPM. Mine has this same type of safety, but I can't find a mark on it anywhere. It has really rough semi-circular machine marks on both ends, and there is possibly a light mark on one end, but I can't make out what it says. Thanks, Bob

It's been a while since I dug my S'G' from the back of the safe but I'll do so when I get home from work tonight. Although I don't have anything about a '7' on the front sight it's possible there is one and I neglected to note it on the informal data sheet I made out when I first bought the carbine. I have the safety listed as a type II (plain face) and the 'IN' marking is on the inside.
Mikey51 - thanks for the photo of the front sight, is it on an S'G'?

[Wulf]

S'G' experimented with different height front sight blades. These variations in height were marked with a single number on the outside.

[USGI]

S'G' experimented with different height front sight blades. These variations in height were marked with a single number on the outside.

I've heard the same thing and that the numbers ran from 2 to 7 - also that it was done after installation of the sight, and was to aid those those targeting the rifles in filing of the front sight blades. Does anyone know for sure if the 2 represented a sight that needed to be shorter, or was that maybe the 7? My sight, marked with a 7 on the left base is really short at around .2 inches, but I believe someone has done some more filing on it since 1943.

---------- Post added at 12:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:04 PM ----------

It's been a while since I dug my S'G' from the back of the safe but I'll do so when I get home from work tonight. Although I don't have anything about a '7' on the front sight it's possible there is one and I neglected to note it on the informal data sheet I made out when I first bought the carbine. I have the safety listed as a type II (plain face) and the 'IN' marking is on the inside.
Mikey51 - thanks for the photo of the front sight, is it on an S'G'?

Do you know where on the inside they usually put the marking? I can't find anything inside on mine. I'm curious too about Mikey51's sight - another "sidewards N" variation? On an S'G' ?

[BrianQ]

S'G' experimented with different height front sight blades. These variations in height were marked with a single number on the outside.

It was Irwin Pedersen not Saginaw Gear that initiated the front sights of varying heights. IP precut front sights down from the standard height to one of seven dimensions and stamped a corresponding number on the left side of the sight. When the carbines were targeted they were done so without a front sight. Instead they used a dummy fixture which gave them the height required for the front sight blade. After targeting the appropriate pre-sized front sight was installed. The IP pre-sized front sights ranged in size from 0 - 8, with 0 being the tallest and 8 being the shortest. The #1 sights were the standard height of .795" from bore centerline. When Saginaw Gear took over the IP facility they abandoned the practice in favor of the standard method of firing the completed carbine, then filing the front sight to the appropriate size. Saginaw Gear did use some of the left over pre-sized front sights but they were targeted in the standard fashion.

[USGI]

Now I know why the post on my S'G' is so short, but wonder how they knew to put on one marked "7" before targeting - maybe they were still using the sight fixture at the time? It's beginning to sound like the "N" and the "sidewards N" are both correct for the S'G' also, since mine has the leftover IP sight and Maniac's is probably the later version. - Bob

[Mikey51]

Brian is right. The PN sight has a 6 on the left side. An all IP part gun except for an RMC handguard that I can't explain. I have been trying to attach a pic but the system won't work tonight. Will try again tomorrow, Mike.