O.Geyger Mauser 98 Captured WW1 Battle of Marne by 3rd Cold Stream/Irish Guards RARE

[Calif-Steve]

In the peacetime Prussian Army, the main component of the Imperial German Army, there were one Imperial Guard Jäger battalion, the Garde-Jäger-Bataillon, and twelve line Jäger battalions. One Jäger battalion, the Großherzoglich Mecklenburgisches Jäger-Bataillon Nr. 14, was from the grand duchy of Mecklenburg-Schwerin. Another, Westfälisches Jäger-Bataillon Nr. 7, known as the "Bückeburg Jägers", was raised in the principality of Schaumburg-Lippe (whose capital was Bückeburg). The other ten were from Prussian lands. In addition, another Prussian Guard unit, the Garde-Schützen-Bataillon, though not designated Jäger, was a Jäger formation. Its origins were in a French chasseur battalion of the Napoleonic era, and its troops wore the shako and green tunic of Jäger.

The army of the Kingdom of Saxony added two Jäger battalions, which were included in the Imperial German Army order of battle as Kgl. Sächsisches 1. Jäger-Bataillon Nr. 12 and Kgl. Sächsisches 2. Jäger-Bataillon Nr. 13. The Saxon Jäger had a number of dress distinctions - notably tunics of a darker green than the Prussian colour, black facings instead of red and a black buffalo-hair plume buckled to the side of the shako. The autonomous Royal Bavarian Army provided a further two Jäger battalions, Kgl. Bayerisches 1. Jäger-Bataillon and Kgl. Bayerisches 2. Jäger-Bataillon, who wore the light blue of Bavarian infantry with green facings.

On mobilization in August 1914, each of these Prussian, Saxon and Bavarian Jäger battalions raised a reserve Jäger battalion. In September 1914, an additional 12 reserve Jäger battalions were raised (10 Prussian and 2 Saxon). In May 1915, the German Army began joining the Jäger battalions to form Jäger regiments, and in late 1917, the Deutsche Jäger-Division was formed.

During the early stages of World War I the German Jäger maintained their traditional role as skirmishers and scouts, often in conjunction with cavalry units. With the advent of trench warfare they were committed to an ordinary infantry role, integrated into divisions and losing their status as independent units
Wikipedia quote.

These German units were Light Infantry and well trained and well led. I would guess the German officer who carried his hunting rifle into combat was either killed or seriously wounded as he would not have lost his rifle. I am surprised that an British unit took that rifle back home. I didn't think the British took Greman rifles home. Nice historical piece, to say the least. I would guess a German collector would pay real money for that rifle.

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[Patrick Chadwick]

would guess the German officer who carried his hunting rifle into combat

I must respectfully disagree with that opinion. For "officers and gentlemen" snobbery, the Prussians could make the British officers seem like socialists. An officer would not carry a rifle into battle ("gentlemen don't do that sort of thing, old boy"). And most certainly not a private hunting rifle. The function of an officer was to direct his troops, not to participate in the sordid business of killing. Don't forget - this was only a few weeks into the war, and the shine had not yet worn off these 19th century attitudes.

Patrick

[malmartini]

In the peacetime Prussian Army, the main component of the Imperial German Army, there were one Imperial Guard Jäger battalion, the Garde-Jäger-Bataillon, and twelve line Jäger battalions. One Jäger battalion, the Großherzoglich Mecklenburgisches Jäger-Bataillon Nr. 14, was from the grand duchy of Mecklenburg-Schwerin. Another, Westfälisches Jäger-Bataillon Nr. 7, known as the "Bückeburg Jägers", was raised in the principality of Schaumburg-Lippe (whose capital was Bückeburg). The other ten were from Prussian lands. In addition, another Prussian Guard unit, the Garde-Schützen-Bataillon, though not designated Jäger, was a Jäger formation. Its origins were in a French chasseur battalion of the Napoleonic era, and its troops wore the shako and green tunic of Jäger.

The army of the Kingdom of Saxony added two Jäger battalions, which were included in the Imperial German Army order of battle as Kgl. Sächsisches 1. Jäger-Bataillon Nr. 12 and Kgl. Sächsisches 2. Jäger-Bataillon Nr. 13. The Saxon Jäger had a number of dress distinctions - notably tunics of a darker green than the Prussian colour, black facings instead of red and a black buffalo-hair plume buckled to the side of the shako. The autonomous Royal Bavarian Army provided a further two Jäger battalions, Kgl. Bayerisches 1. Jäger-Bataillon and Kgl. Bayerisches 2. Jäger-Bataillon, who wore the light blue of Bavarian infantry with green facings.

On mobilization in August 1914, each of these Prussian, Saxon and Bavarian Jäger battalions raised a reserve Jäger battalion. In September 1914, an additional 12 reserve Jäger battalions were raised (10 Prussian and 2 Saxon). In May 1915, the German Army began joining the Jäger battalions to form Jäger regiments, and in late 1917, the Deutsche Jäger-Division was formed.

During the early stages of World War I the German Jäger maintained their traditional role as skirmishers and scouts, often in conjunction with cavalry units. With the advent of trench warfare they were committed to an ordinary infantry role, integrated into divisions and losing their status as independent units
Wikipedia quote.

These German units were Light Infantry and well trained and well led. I would guess the German officer who carried his hunting rifle into combat was either killed or seriously wounded as he would not have lost his rifle. I am surprised that an British unit took that rifle back home. I didn't think the British took Greman rifles home. Nice historical piece, to say the least. I would guess a German collector would pay real money for that rifle.

Hi Steve,
It's good to have that sort background with the rifle, VERY helpful! Thats the sort of information I may be able to refine. I really want to zero in on Axis operations on the 7th/8th & 9th of September. I need someone who can do a google search in German on or around those dates. Searches using the words Boitron...or the Marne etc... Knowing a little of how formal Germans are, I'm sure everything would have been documented,...if that documentation survived the war is another question. My wifes father was born in Germany, migrating as a child, post WW2, & still understands the language. I would love to ask him to try & search for me, but I don't think his computer literacy is up to scratch...besides he does have a tendancy to be a grumpy old bastard!!...(oh, but in never said that!)
Thank you,
Cheers; Mal

[Patrick Chadwick]

I really want to zero in on Axis operations on the 7th/8th & 9th of September. I need someone who can do a google search in German on or around those dates.

You are getting muddled in your history. This is WWI, not WWII. You need to look for the activities of the Imperial German Army!
As calif-steve pointed out in his excellent post, there were several Jäger batallions, but only one Garde-Jäger Batallion - the one in the Prussian Army.

I suggest you follow this link, print it all out, and ask your father-in-law to translate the essence of it for you.

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garde-J%C3%A4ger-Bataillon

You can read that the famous MG 08 was trialled by the Garde-Jäger Batallion in the 1900s. This MG became the standard MG of the German army, and in fact was so widespread in the lighter version MG 08/15 that "08/15" became a German expression equivalent to "bog standard" in British English.

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/MG_08

In German, the "Gunner Asch..." series of books by Hans Hellmut Kirsch is the "08/15..." series. A possibly subliminal effect of the name Gunner Asch is that if you draw out the a of Asch, it reminds you of a coarse expression equivalent to "the poor bloody infantryman" - "der Schütze Arsch".
Who knows whether or not Kirst intended this? I suspect so.

Patrick

[Patrick Chadwick]

... before all the uniforms turned to grey!

http://www.uniformfotos.de/218.html

Patriotically idealized:

http://www.bildpostkarten.uni-osnabr....php?pos=-8327

Patrick


---------- Post added at 05:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:31 PM ----------

My last contribution on this topic...

... is to suggest that you a) learn some basic German and/or b) get your father-in-law up to speed on using the Internet, and pose any questions on the military operations of those days in the public forum on this site. I think that was enough from me!

http://www.milex.de/

And now I really must go and sort out the jungle, a.k.a. garden!

Patrick

[malmartini]

You are getting muddled in your history. This is WWI, not WWII. You need to look for the activities of the Imperial German Army!
As calif-steve pointed out in his excellent post, there were several Jäger batallions, but only one Garde-Jäger Batallion - the one in the Prussian Army.

I suggest you follow this link, print it all out, and ask your father-in-law to translate the essence of it for you.

Garde-Jäger-Bataillon – Wikipedia

You can read that the famous MG 08 was trialled by the Garde-Jäger Batallion in the 1900s. This MG became the standard MG of the German army, and in fact was so widespread in the lighter version MG 08/15 that "08/15" became a German expression equivalent to "bog standard" in British English.

MG 08 – Wikipedia

In German, the "Gunner Asch..." series of books by Hans Hellmut Kirsch is the "08/15..." series. A possibly subliminal effect of the name Gunner Asch is that if you draw out the a of Asch, it reminds you of a coarse expression equivalent to "the poor bloody infantryman" - "der Schütze Arsch".
Who knows whether or not Kirst intended this? I suspect so.

Patrick

My last contribution on this topic...

... is to suggest that you a) learn some basic German and/or b) get your father-in-law up to speed on using the Internet, and pose any questions on the military operations of those days in the public forum on this site. I think that was enough from me!

Lexikon des Ersten Weltkrieges

And now I really must go and sort out the jungle, a.k.a. garden!

Patrick


Hi Patrick.
Thankyou once again for all the help, you have an impressive knowledge of history & firearms!....Yes I was a bit muddled with my history last night after Mums 80th Birthday, too many Beers with familiy & friends. So it looks like I have alot of homework to do, plus the unpleasant task of training my farther inlaw in computer literacy (the blind, leading the blind, comes to mind!) I will have all the attached websites checked out at some stage by any means possible. Good luck with the garden.....