Pics of my 1943 No4NkI(T)

[Hal O'Peridol]

I had posted a pic of the inventory tag on my No4 T rifle, and Peter had some concern regarding the Z on the tag after the serial number. Peter had posted that the rifle could have been Z'd, which IIRC is same as condemned, but that a Z or ZF would have been stenciled in yellow on the butt.

There is yellow paint on the butt, however, it is daubed on in two places, and poorly done at that.

I have taken a few pics of the rifle and scope tin, all I could do after it got dark.

Here we go........

Attachment 27968

Attachment 27969

Attachment 27970

Attachment 27971

Attachment 27972

Attachment 27973

Attachment 27974

Attachment 27975

Attachment 27976

Attachment 27977

Attachment 27978

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[tbonesmith]

Looks pretty sweet to me!

[PrinzEugen]

Can't help at all with the yellow paint - although I would have thought a condemned rifle would have been marked rather more clearly than that! (and presumably scrapped).

It's an interesting one - the serial no for the scope would be too high for a '43 rifle and the rifle serial no on the wrist has been overstamped - although this certainly not uncommon at all as the original engraving was very faint and would have been obscured by wear and refinishing over years (yours looks like the suncorite has been refinished).

[jmoore]

Suncorite would not have been on the rifle in WWII anyway. Considering it was in service through 1961 (or4?) at least, the whole rifle probably got rebuilt to one degree or another several times, so having a late scope makes perfect sense, and there's no reason to assume that it's not correct given all the other clues. Very nice to see a well used rifle that is likely just as it was when it left service.

The yellow paint could be perhaps a visible indicator that the rifle was "going away"? It was liberally applied to the chests in many cases.

[Peter Laidler]

Of course, we shouldn't forget that Z indicates Base Workshop repair in REME/Armourers parlance. So it could easily have gone into the Base Workshop at Donnington (there was always - and still is - a big Base workshop attached to the huge Ordnance Depot there) and been rectified. Then sold off. But as a general rule, the Z and ZF, BER etc etc markings were usually well defined.

[Thunderbox]

The yellow paint could be perhaps a visible indicator that the rifle was "going away"? It was liberally applied to the chests in many cases.

From the location of the paint, I reckon that the rifle was sitting in its chest with the lid open, whilst someone was painting a unit ID patch on the box above it - and the paint has just dripped down. Maybe check the inside of the box and see if there are any drip marks?

[Hal O'Peridol]

No other yellow pain anywhere.

Someone on another forum long ago had said that a retailer up in Canada had gone to the importer, selected the rifles he wanted, and marked them with a blob of yellow yellow paint....any truth yo that I don't know. I haven't talen the rifle apart yet, do ned to, especially to check serial number on butt stock, since this one is still marked S51.

I could not figure out why a condemned rifle would have been packed way for extended storage. So while it may have has a "Z" at some point, apparently it had been repaired prior. Does anyone want to see some more pictures, and a particular spot?

[jmoore]

More phots are always good, esp. with an "unmolested" rifle. An "S51" in combination with the late scope IS a bit of a surprise, but there's a theory that's been in me pea brain for a long while that I just can't set forth.

[Peter Laidler]

For an example of how a weapon could be Z or even the dire 'last chance saloon' ZF and then appear back in service, fully repaired, I detail a certain repair to worn out Bren bodies in a recent Bren thread. Won't repeat it here but if you want to read it..............

[Roger Payne]

Yes, I'm with jmoore re the scope number. From what I can see on th ephoto's it does not look like any other numbers have been barred out or removed, yet we have a single scope serial of a 1945 era Mk3 on a BSA 1943 rifle.........unusual.........unless of course the rifle was one of those originally set up less the scope, the scope being added later, in service.

Have no suggestions about the paint....although I think Warren mentioned in a previous thread about a certain dealer in Canada marking the rifles (or was it the transit chests? ) they had selected to buy with a blob of yellow paint.

ATB