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  1. #1
    Legacy Member tankhunter's Avatar
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    Peter, Yes, like yourself. A 'Modest' Quantity of L4's & Brens have been Range & Function tested over the Years! The Brens 'Reputation' for accuracy, as understood by me from feedback gleaned for the 'End User'. So to speak is:

    When the infanteer spoke of 'Accuracy' as HE meant it. Was the fact that because of R.E.M.E Stringent Inspection Rules. one of the 'Complaints' if I may term it that, was the fact that it gave too tight a group at the fall of shot end. IE: it did not 'SCATTER' the rounds sufficiently to give a greater 'Beaten Zone' effect. This was due to Armourers complying with one of the many Inspection checks on quarterly inspections. The Barrel nut (Or lever to the uninitiated) must NOT allow any rotational movement of the barrel when pulled out against it's retaining catch.(Taking up the slack) And the LHS of the Reciever. Gripping the foresight protector with your left thumb whilst holding the barrel in the palm of your left hand & holding the reciever in your right hand. There should be NO rotational movement at all. If movement WAS encountered. Then the next size of Barrel nut up was fitted, & engraved with the Guns serial number.

    To gain the 'Accuracy' that the infanteer wanted, then the opposite would have applied. IE: fit a barrel nut of the next size lower than the one already fitted. this would then obviously ALLOW barrel slop, or rotatioanl movement. & thus open UP the group to widen the Beaten zone.

    BUT, As we Armouers had to follow E.M.E.R's, The Rules above stated applied. And the group was tight for an LMG, which was NOT really what the infanteer wanted!.................

    Hence the 'Reputation' that the Bren gained as far as Infanrtymen I conversed with. On the subject of 'Accuracy' as far as a Bren/ LMG was concerned!
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    Last edited by tankhunter; 12-22-2011 at 05:14 AM.

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    Contributing Member Woodsy's Avatar
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    Wink

    The best group I have ever got from a Bren was about 5" at 100 metres on semi-auto (10 rounds) and about 12" on full auto in three round bursts (18 rounds). That was with excellent condition 1954 CAC Mk VII fresh from Army stores, and using a virtually new condition Lithgowicon Mk I Upgraded Bren. The shooting was prone with the bipod legs blocked front and rear with sandbags, well locked into the gun and a steady squeeze on the trigger. I have found that the ZB26 with good ammo is better, and I have had consistent hits on a 12" steel gong at 300 metres on semi-auto. By way of comparasion, I can get sub 2" groups at 100 metres with my 5 groove Long Branch No4, 3" groups with the LiA1 Lithgow SLR, and 3" groups with a 1941 Lithgow SMLE Mk III*, all using issue sights. My L42 rebarrelled No4 rifle with sporting stocks and a 6-18x Swift scope will do better than 1" with Aussie F4 ball ammo. While the Bren is not as accurate as a rifle, it is still well capable of 'minute of man' out to a respectable distance on semi-auto. I just love the gun!

  4. #3
    Advisory Panel Lee Enfield's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tankhunter View Post
    Peter, Yes, like yourself. A 'Modest' Quantity of L4's & Brens have been Range & Function tested over the Years! The Brens 'Reputation' for accuracy, as understood by me from feedback gleaned for the 'End User'. So to speak is:

    When the infanteer spoke of 'Accuracy' as HE meant it. Was the fact that because of R.E.M.E Stringent Inspection Rules. one of the 'Complaints' if I may term it that, was the fact that it gave too tight a group at the fall of shot end. IE: it did not 'SCATTER' the rounds sufficiently to give a greater 'Beaten Zone' effect. This was due to Armourers complying with one of the many Inspection checks on quarterly inspections. The Barrel nut (Or lever to the uninitiated) must NOT allow any rotational movement of the barrel when pulled out against it's retaining catch.(Taking up the slack) And the LHS of the Reciever. Gripping the foresight protector with your left thumb whilst holding the barrel in the palm of your left hand & holding the reciever in your right hand. There should be NO rotational movement at all. If movement WAS encountered. Then the next size of Barrel nut up was fitted, & engraved with the Guns serial number.

    To gain the 'Accuracy' that the infanteer wanted, then the opposite would have applied. IE: fit a barrel nut of the next size lower than the one already fitted. this would then obviously ALLOW barrel slop, or rotatioanl movement. & thus open UP the group to widen the Beaten zone.

    BUT, As we Armouers had to follow E.M.E.R's, The Rules above stated applied. And the group was tight for an LMG, which was NOT really what the infanteer wanted!.................

    Hence the 'Reputation' that the Bren gained as far as Infanrtymen I conversed with. On the subject of 'Accuracy' as far as a Bren/ LMG was concerned!
    Not being an engineer, nor an infanteer, I can tell you that the reason they wanted the barrel tightly fitted was so that the gun did not batter itself into tiny little pieces in short order.

    The Brens "reputation" for accuracy and reliability would have in short order become a reputation for unreliability, and parts breakage....
    BSN from the Republic of Alberta

    http://www.cartridgecollectors.org/

  5. #4
    Legacy Member tankhunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Enfield View Post
    Not being an engineer, nor an infanteer, I can tell you that the reason they wanted the barrel tightly fitted was so that the gun did not batter itself into tiny little pieces in short order.

    The Brens "reputation" for accuracy and reliability would have in short order become a reputation for unreliability, and parts breakage....
    LE: I can understand your approach on logic as to your statement of The Bren having a loose Barrel.
    However: The Breech block slams forward & it's momentum is finally halted by two Breech block Stops in the Reciever. Technically, it does NOT touch the Barrel at the breech end. The result of a 'Loose' Barrel in Armourers terms, would be a loss of group accuracy. The Barrels are manufactured from good steel stock but NOT hard. The Barrel locking nuts are VERY Hard indeed! So the worse that could happen is that it is POSSIBLE to slightly batter the set of interupted threads at the breech end of the Barrel. This would be minimal & would not really affect the action of the gun.
    BUT, if left for a LONG time in this condition (Would NOT happen in Britishicon Military service due to frequent inspection Procedures) then it MIGHT affect cartridge headspace & cause seperated cases to occur.
    I have never expirenced a seperated case in either .303" Brens, or 7.62mm LMGs due to pre firing checks being carried out. & also R.E.M.E Armourers inspections as required as laid out in E.M.E.Rs.
    If this happend in todays world with the guns set up correctly. I would suspect the Ammo if it were OLD stock. & even then, with the use of VERY old Ammo. I have fired Brens with no dificulty, other than the odd round has misfired due to Primer failure through age/damp conditions.
    I doubt very much, that with a 'loose' barrel any further recoil forces or any radial stresses are transfered to any of the guns componants that would raise further concerns as to reliability of functioning in general.
    these guns have legendary reliability for functioning under the most adverse of conditions as we all are aware.
    But even through 'Normal' usage, nothing lasts forever! I can state just as a simple example.
    The Piston Post (The componant that fits inside the pistion assembly & the 'Hook end' that projects through to hit the head of the firing pin)
    I have replaced a fair few of these over the years where the cylinder section has fractured off just in front of the square section. (The cylindrical section houses the buffer spring)
    This has been through 'Normal' service usage. IE: Firing Ball Ammo, & 'Dry firing' the action after stripping, cleaning & assembling.
    It was not a common componant breakage, BUT, I can count on Two hands the amount of them I have encountered in 30 years of working & using them. Both in Service use, & Private ownership usage.
    Believe it or not. Even with fractured piston posts, the guns STILL functioned & fired correctly! Testimant indeed, to the legendary reliablity of 'The greatest LMG ever designed & Built'!.................................

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