30-06 Match Ammo Crimp or ?

[John Kepler]

A.) The "number" on your expander ball is meaningless....if your testing shows that you can displace the ball during cycling, then Q.E.D.: The sizing ball is too damn big and needs to be smaller.

B.) Show me in my post where the word "hand" appeared? I use a lathe and check the run-out before I use the abrasive (but I significantly question whether doing it "by hand" is an issue!). In over 30 years of competition loading, I've had to "surgically alter exactly 2 expander-balls....none of them on RCBS or Redding dies. BTW, did YOU check the run-out on YOUR current expander ball before you start getting your boxers in a bunch about inducing any asymmetry when you reduce the diameter?? You may already have a significant source of your current die-problem and don't know it!

C.) Since you're making noise like you might know your way around a machine-shop and/or have at least some engineering experience....look at the design of that Lee crimp-die and please explain to me how you feel THAT gizmo is going to be capable of delivering a CONSISTENT repeatable crimp-load, plus-minus a fractional percent? I didn't think so! A crimp is a variable. After your engineering analysis of the gizmo, then we'll have to discuss the fractional BC alterations the crimp induces in the now distorted bullet! You MAY not see such things on short-lines....but when you start shooting targets at 1000 yds, these "little things" get huge in one hell of a hurry!

D.) Don't "bench-race" about it, bring your crimped loads, your rifle, and meet a couple thousand of us Camp Perry in August and see how y'all do against all those dummies that don't crimp their gas-gun loads (which will be just about everyone you'll be shooting with!). Empiricism in action! If your loads actually shoot better than ours.....you win the sausage! If you're REALLY on your game, you'll get pirogi to go with it!

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[JustPassingThrough]

A.) The "number" on your expander ball is meaningless....if your testing shows that you can displace the ball during cycling, then Q.E.D.: The sizing ball is too damn big and needs to be smaller.

There clearly is a limit to the point in which you can reduce your expander ball, so I have to disagree with the comment that you just arbitrarily reduce the size until things stick. I suspect there is a limit on how much neck tension you get. At some point you exceed the yield point on the brass and it doesn't matter how far you reduce the ball. I will machine up a couple new expander balls and see if I can find that sweet spot.

B.) Show me in my post where the word "hand" appeared? I use a lathe and check the run-out before I use the abrasive (but I significantly question whether doing it "by hand" is an issue!). In over 30 years of competition loading, I've had to "surgically alter exactly 2 expander-balls....none of them on RCBS or Redding dies. BTW, did YOU check the run-out on YOUR current expander ball before you start getting your boxers in a bunch about inducing any asymmetry when you reduce the diameter?? You may already have a significant source of your current die-problem and don't know it!

I did check the run-out and it was fine. This is an RCBS die.

C.) Since you're making noise like you might know your way around a machine-shop and/or have at least some engineering experience....look at the design of that Lee crimp-die and please explain to me how you feel THAT gizmo is going to be capable of delivering a CONSISTENT repeatable crimp-load, plus-minus a fractional percent? I didn't think so! A crimp is a variable. After your engineering analysis of the gizmo, then we'll have to discuss the fractional BC alterations the crimp induces in the now distorted bullet! You MAY not see such things on short-lines....but when you start shooting targets at 1000 yds, these "little things" get huge in one hell of a hurry!

You'll have to ask LEE to elaborate on their crimp die and the engineering that goes into it. I'd point you to the top part of they're web page.

Lee Precision, Inc. Reloading Tools and Equipment: Lee Crimping Dies

The only data I have is less deviations in velocity and better grouping vs. no crimp in my loads and in my rifle. Sadly 600 yards is my range limit at the moment. So I cant comment on distances greater then that.

D.) Don't "bench-race" about it, bring your crimped loads, your rifle, and meet a couple thousand of us Camp Perry in August and see how y'all do against all those dummies that don't crimp their gas-gun loads (which will be just about everyone you'll be shooting with!). Empiricism in action! If your loads actually shoot better than ours.....you win the sausage! If you're REALLY on your game, you'll get pirogi to go with it!

How do you propose to eliminate the rifle, load and shooter from the comparisons?