Range Report - 1891 Carcano (1896)

[jmoore]

Perhaps y'all ought to get the reloading manual and read the entire introductory paragraphs. Hornady is pretty good about making disclaimers. Read the 8mm Mauser caliber entry for one example.

[vintage hunter]

O come off it Patrick, you're making more assumptions than you're claiming I am. It's plain to see neither of us is gonna roll over and play dead so I suggest we let this P!%%ing contest between us drop before it gets personal. You believe what you want to based on the information you have and I'll do the same. Now are we friends again or what??

Jm, I have done just that many times and without even looking( don't really know exactly where my Hornady manual is ATM) I know just what your referring to, ''do not use this data for the modle 1888'', or words to that effect. Right?

[jmoore]

Well, amongst other warnings for the 8mm, yes, or something to that effect. Manual's at the house, where there's no computer.

Other examples- Hornady has probably three different tables for 45-70 with different applications in mind. They have warnings about the non-interchangibilty of the .222 Rem Mag and the .223 Rem. All sorts of things that would indicate that if there was more to consider when loading for the Carcano, they would have included it. It's not like there aren't all sorts of dire warnings in that section already.

BTW, it's not like Hornady hasn't been loading ammo and selling it commercially themselves. Which ammo could end up in any old Carcano. I've shot it. It's not downloaded.

In fact, I would recommend most folk shoot the factory stuff first. Another layer of protection, if you will. And it's not all that expensive when it's available.

I do have a Carcano carbine getting sorted. But what with blackberry season on and overtime and setting up the new shop, I don't know when I'll shoot at the range!

Also have a 7,35 short rifle to shoot that's been patiently awaiting a go.

[Patrick Chadwick]

Oh how I wish there was such a thing as 0.266" jacketed bullets! One can get them as hard-lead cast bullets, but up to now I have had no success with them.

When I get around to it - my present excuse is that I have 2 competitions with the M1917 in the next two weeks, so let's say July sometime - I'm going to take a few 264s and turn off the base of the jacket in the lathe, to see if this produces any improvement by (so my theory) allowing a touch of obturation of the base.


Patrick

[jmoore]

Watch that you don't blow the core out of the bullet! That could be a REAL drama.

[vintage hunter]

I'd considered doing something similar with Nosler Partitions, forming a concave in the base sorta like a Minie Bullet.


BTW, does anyane know how the gain twist in a Carcano barrel starts out and ends up? Don't know how reliable the info I have is but it lists it as starting out at a rate of 1:19.25 at the breech end and finishing up at 1:8.25 an the muzzle and the rifling makes the same transition regardless of barrel lenght.

[RBruce]

Whew! I'm worn out from reading this thread, and I have forgotten who's on first.

[jmoore]

Whew! I'm worn out from reading this thread, and I have forgotten who's on first.

That would be you! It's your thread on which we're running amuck.

BTW, I found a tatty old '91 TS with a less than stellar bore today. Even though it looks quite spiffy at 30 feet, I think it might be a good test vehicle for the Hornady bullets.- Gain twist rifling and tiny pits from start to finish. Muzzle's washed out, though so accuracy probably won't be ggod.

[Patrick Chadwick]

BTW, does anyane know how the gain twist in a Carcano barrel starts out and ends up? Don't know how reliable the info I have is but it lists it as starting out at a rate of 1:19.25 at the breech end and finishing up at 1:8.25 an the muzzle and the rifling makes the same transition regardless of barrel lenght.

For the M91: Starts at 578 mm (22.75") with a pitchangle of 2.02 degrees. Tightens linearly (i.e. there is no sudden tightening) to 201 mm (7.9", 5.8 degrees) at the muzzle, over a barrel length of 781 mm.
For the Moschetto M91: Starts with 389 mm (15.3", 3.00 degrees) and tightens to 190 mm (7.5", 6.12 degrees), over a rifling length of only 375 mm.

As you can see, the twist progression is NOT the same for all models, and on the Moschetto it is a fairly ferocious tightening, which is why it is not unreasonable to be worried about the jackets on oversized bullets being twisted right off the core.


Patrick

[jmoore]

As you can see, the twist progression is NOT the same for all models

How about the '91 carbine and the '91 TS? Those are the "shorties" I have. The carbine has been no dramas, if not very accurate. The "new" crapola TS was obtained partly just for these experiments.