Another "treacle rifle" - FTR No.1MKIII*

[Frederick303]

It is definitely an Irish rifle. My guess is based on the markings that it has a replaced 1938 or possibly 1937 barrel date. The barrel will be most likely an Enfield barrel and will also bear a FF in a circle mark.

If the barrel does not bear such a marking, then the barrel will be a post war replacement barrel, which may have no marking at all, or a BSA marking. If BSA it will be dated before 1954.

The above is based on observed markings on Irish rifles; with this rifle I have 78 rifles in the SMLE database.

The varnish is a post service modification.

It seems to have a European proof on the barrel; this is the second one I have in my database. These rifles were all from the final sale of Irish SMLE rifles, which occurred after 1985 and before the end of 1988.

Information

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[Patrick Chadwick]

My guess is based on the markings that it has a replaced 1938 or possibly 1937 barrel date. The barrel will be most likely an Enfield barrel and will also bear a FF in a circle mark.

Frederick, your guess was a 10X.
Of course, since I will not be able to shoot the rifle for another week, I was unable to resist my historical curiosity.

And now I know what an almost new SMLE barrel looks like.
Attachment 36084

The top has the FF, as predicted. And the Enfield "E". Also marked FB31 (Firth Brown Lot 31, I think).
Attachment 36077

And the left side shows a 38 with WD arrow.
Attachment 36080

The right side shows the original number, X-ed out, and the new number applied.
Attachment 36081

There are yet more markings below, but the photo turned out poorly.

B.T.W. the bolt does not have an old number X-ed out, only the new number and the detached P. The Nosecap also only bears the new number and the separate P. It looks as if this was a barrelled system put into an existing rifle (stock, bolt and fore-end) and renumbered to fit. An odd way of doing it. Why not simply renumber bolt and nosecap to match the barrelled system?

There is a "W" in the barrel channel. Probably Wilkinsons Ltd. of Bradford.
Attachment 36079

The magazine slot shows how clean the rifle and all components are on the inside.
Attachment 36083

So the treacle is now coming off!
Attachment 36082
This is now. Next week it will look somewhat different.


Patrick

[lngstrt]

'Mauserland' ... I like that Auch möchte Ich viele Mauser!

Regarding the age of the barrel, when did 'they' stop the FF on rifles?

[P-07ShortLee]

It is definitely an Irish rifle. My guess is based on the markings that it has a replaced 1938 or possibly 1937 barrel date. The barrel will be most likely an Enfield barrel and will also bear a FF in a circle mark.

If the barrel does not bear such a marking, then the barrel will be a post war replacement barrel, which may have no marking at all, or a BSA marking. If BSA it will be dated before 1954.

The above is based on observed markings on Irish rifles; with this rifle I have 78 rifles in the SMLE database.

The varnish is a post service modification.

It seems to have a European proof on the barrel; this is the second one I have in my database. These rifles were all from the final sale of Irish SMLE rifles, which occurred after 1985 and before the end of 1988.

Why 1937 or 1938?

Since you say the undated ones are postwar, does that mean it was rebarreled before ww2?

[Frederick303]

Not trying to be secretive, but based on a data base of sampled rifles it seems to have a feature I have seen exclusively on 1938 re-barreled Irish rifles. I have 78 rifles sampled out of approximately 31,169~31,669 SMLE MK III/II* rifles that were sold between 1961 and 1987, I have only a 0.246 % sample of the rifles. Of course when this feature appeared is not for sure, so there might be some 1937 re-barreled guns with this feature, I simply do not have enough rifles in my sample size to say.

There has been a lot of “conventional knowledge” put out on Irish rifles that has been in error, indeed on some very basic points there is still debate. In order to be more precise I would need to have written verification on some observed data. I do not want to put out information that is incorrect, but once I have all the data verified I am sure I will post the results here or on Gunboards (under the name Fritz)

[stevebc]

The above is based on observed markings on Irish rifles; with this rifle I have 78 rifles in the SMLE database.

Perhaps mine is #79?
I've a 1916 BSA No.1Mk.III* with a SSA stamped trigger guard that I finally got around to removing the rear handguard from. Here are the pics:






That's the only place I've seen the FF, but I haven't disassembled it any further.