??Range estimation using grat on a No32/L1A1 Scope??

[Roger Payne]

At the Trafalgar meeting last weekend I was lucky enough to sell a L42A1 to a regular customer of mine. During the transaction a chap came up to us & started extolling the use of the grat as a means of estimating range. I know this can be done with some scopes but have not heard this referred to with the No32/L1A1 before. He claimed to be an ex serving sniper, but who knows?!? He was quoting 'facts' like if the target's head represents the same distance as the top of the vertical pointer above the horizontal hair, then that corresponds to a range of X hundred yds/meters; if the torso represents the same distance then this corresponds to y hundred yds/meters. I appreciate a lot of scopes have been through Peter's as well as other scope repairers' hands, but anyway there seems to be quite a variation in this height from scope to scope which would surely render accurate range estimation impossible? Or have I missed something?

ATB

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[Simon]

Hi Rog,

Looks like I missed you and NobsDave by about a 1/2 hour on Saturday, are you likely to be back for the Phoenix next year?

Ref your question, I've seen reference to the pointer of the grat being used as a rangefinder in both German WWII training manuals and the post WWII manual for the Swiss Zfk55 but never anything for the No32 / L1A1.

Cheers,

Simon.

[jmoore]

I remember that the width of the grat subtends almost exactly 7 MOA on a couple of my L42a1s. Which happens to be quite convenient when a 25 yd NRA timed and rapid fire target is placed at 300m.

[RJW NZ]

Makes a lot of sense to me, all I need is T to go try it out, lol.

[muffett.2008]

I remember the stadia lines on the 106 Recoiless Rifle scope being great for estimating distance, but then a Tank is a bit bigger........Isn't it?

[Beerhunter]

He claimed to be an ex serving sniper, but who knows?!?

Exactly, who knows? He probably didn't know who the was pontificating to Roger.

[Peter Laidler]

Another of those urban myths put about by wanna-be snipers I fear. There's probably as many 'snipers' or ex snipers out there as there are ex SAS men........... No..., maybe not but almost as many! I'm pleased that we all agree here. The falacy can be easily disproved by what I call 'the bleedin obvious'. I suppose that if the graticles were etched on glass under microscopic conditions in a lab. where everything was to within a gnats knacker of accuracy then it would be possible - as we see with the milspec S&B's etc.

But while the grat of a No32/L1A1 is made in a simple engineering workshop or repaired/restrung by humans in instrument shops to within a generous tolerance (the tolerance between the tip of the grat and crosswire) then the notion that you could use this as any meaningful reference point by which to bracket or calculate a range is farcical. I'd also say that if this were the case, then it's be taught. Instead, they teach the art of accurate range taking or better still, using your maps which are generally pretty good when it comes to accurate ranges!

As JM suggests, the THICKNESS of the post and Xwire do subtend to a obscuration factor

The down side to maps is that if you don't know where you are then.................. anyway, if you're a sniper and you don't know where you are then that's another problem. You'll need more than a graticle to help you then. I'd concentrate on my compass and look for some toilet paper!

[Roger Payne]

DPL,
I presume 'gnats knacker' is one of those obscure armourers' technical terms.......?

ATB

[Peter Laidler]

Ah yes........ gnats knacker. It is a precise figure used by Armourers while working as in '......... just skim a gnats knacker off this and it'll fit'. However, it is a tad too precise to use when you're an apprentice where you have to refer to those measuremenmts such as '....half a thou'

[gsimmons]

Peter you mean he wasn't the 2nd man on the balcony?