455 Eley for use in 455 Webley Mk VI

[sledge]

Just picked up a nice 1918 Webley along with some 1924 dated 455 Colt Eley rounds and about 50 empty casings in same.

Can someone confirm or correct the following?

1. 455 Colt Eley is the blackpowder earlier version of the .455 round and ok to shoot in a Mk VI.
2. If I want to reload the 455 Colt Eley cases I should trim them. They are .878inches long but 455 Webley load data shows max case length as .76 inches.

And finally - does anyone know a source to purchase 455 webley cast bullets in Canada?

Thanks,

Information

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[Patrick Chadwick]

1. 455 Colt Eley is the blackpowder earlier version of the .455 round and ok to shoot in a Mk VI. 2. If I want to reload the 455 Colt Eley cases I should trim them. They are .878inches long but 455 Webley load data shows max case length as .76 inches.

1. If the cases are .878" long, then they are the Mk I BP cases.

2. You can, of course, reload them with black powder (Swiss No. 2 / 3F)

3. If reloading with smokeless, shorten the cases to 0.76" (Mk II case length)

4. If you reload the BP length with smokeless, the results will probably be incomplete combustion, powder crumbs in the case, and very sooty cases because of the inadequate expansion. Been there, done that, don't bother!

5. The chamber of the Webley is cut deep enough to take both versions of the cartridge. Which means that the transition step from case diameter to bullet diameter is about 0.120" in front of the case mouth with the later (shorter) Mk II cases. Since revolver cartridges usually have a fairly loose fit, they lie on the bottom of the chamber, so semi-wadcutters and other types of bullet with an edge will bang against this step, and accuracy can be poor. You need round-nose bullets for good guidance into the forcing cone. Full wadcutters (the real dustbin-shapes) will also work, because the edge is beyond the step when the cartridge is chambered.

[jmoore]

My first 50 rounds of .455 were old CIL/Dominion brand ammo. They were loaded in the long cases and I reloaded them for quite a while until obtaining mass qunatities of Fiocchi .455 ammo and brass. Which, as it turns out, are of the short case variety. Ended having to cut back the cut back .45 Colt seating die to get a crimp! Having loaded the long cases using what was probably short case data no dramas were noted. In fact, if anything, they are more satisfactory than the short cased loads. Neither produces much pressure, but powder burn is complete, and they seem equally dirty, depending on the powder.

So I would not advise trimming the cases until you've tried them with a few different loads. Once they begin to split would be a good time to anneal and trim back, but that might take a long time!

BTW, best results have been with the rather pointy Winchester 255 grain 0.456" dia. hollow based bullets, of which my supply is dwindling. Haven't seen any for sale in quite some time.

[Patrick Chadwick]

JM, if you had satisfactory results with the long cases, perhaps you could tell us which powder you used? I also use the original-style 265 gn "rather pointy" round-nose bullets with a hollow base - they perform better than anything else I have tried, including the 255 gn dustbin-style long wadcutters. Using the long cases would eliminate the chamber step problem and might provide a touch better accuracy.

[jmoore]

Will have to go home and check the log book, but the likely suspects are either WW231 or Unique. No Trail Boss invented at the time. And until I started shooting IHMSA with lead bullets that's about the only non-magnum handgun powders used. (Not the case anymore, unfortunately!)

[sledge]

Thanks guys, that is what I suspected but wanted to confirm with the experts!

Found a guy here that is casting 265gr bullets too. All sorted.
Cheers.

[Dave_n]

Thanks guys, that is what I suspected but wanted to confirm with the experts!

Found a guy here that is casting 265gr bullets too. All sorted.
Cheers.

Where were you able to obtain the 365 grain heads? US, UK or Canada?

Would be very interested if in North America,

Cheers,
Dave_n

[jmoore]

Checked the log books. Both 231 and Unique loads. (See Cartridges of the World 4th Ed. for the Unique specs.) The longer cases seem to have preferred Unique and the shorter, 231. Have used both WW bullets and 454429 bullets to good effect, but it;s been a long time since i cast any of the Keith bullets. if I had a better lead supply I'd feel more comfortable doing a big run now, but have to decide where to allocate the resource best whilst pickings are slim.

One other factor that may have made the WW bullets more accurate is that they are seated well out of even the long cases. They were soft enough to crimp anywhere.

A photo or three in several hours- if the weather holds.

[jmoore]

Photos:

"Lots" of Fiocchi .455 Mk.II on hand, but only the one box of Dominion in .455 Colt:



L to R- .45 Auto Rim, .455 Colt with a WW bullet seated out fairly long, and a factory .455 Mk.II Fiocchi:



No pressure signs in the primer area at all! I've seen empty cased rounds fired that distort the primer more (in rifles).:



No cast bulleted loads left to show, I think. Might be one rattling around somewhere, perhaps a dummy in the die set box.

[Peter Laidler]

That Fiocchi .455 ammo was really good. The cases seem to last forever