Enfield (T) Rear Receiver Flats

[mjolnir2]

Does any one have any information about "twin D6E Enfield Examiners marks on the rear receiver flats"? I understand that the typical mark is D7E on the right flat and D6E on the left.

Information

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[Ridolpho]

mjolnir2: I've noticed two with such markings recently- one on gunauction.com and one on Gunbroker.com. I also recall their serial numbers were quite close together. Can you post some photos? Note: found the two sale postings. Both rifles are 1945, serial numbers T33475 and T33439. Again, both have D6E on both sides of the rear of the body.

Ridolpho

[mjolnir2]

mjolnir2: I've noticed two with such markings recently- one on gunauction.com and one on Gunbroker.com. I also recall their serial numbers were quite close together. Can you post some photos? Note: found the two sale postings. Both rifles are 1945, serial numbers T33475 and T33439. Again, both have D6E on both sides of the rear of the body.

Ridolpho

Yes, those are the two that I was referring to in my post. Both had the similar markings and the rifles, based upon my limited knowledge, looked correct in all other aspects. I was wondering if someone here could shed some light on this topic. Interesting observation about the 2 serial numbers being so close,

[Surpmil]

Photos have been posted in the past. You would be well advised to buy a copy of Peter's book on the No4(T) as the story is all there, but for the odd detail or two that have turned up since. Then you can be an expert like those of us who read it years ago!

[Ridolpho]

Surpmil: I, too, read Peter's book a while ago but I don't recall mention of D6E marks on both rear flats. I have quite a number of photos of this specific area on file and these two are the first I've seen like this. Does this suggest Harry Hardwick was moonlighting at BSA Shirley?

Ridolpho

[mjolnir2]

Photos have been posted in the past. You would be well advised to buy a copy of Peter's book on the No4(T) as the story is all there, but for the odd detail or two that have turned up since. Then you can be an expert like those of us who read it years ago!

Surpmil - LOL! I will just have to do that and get a copy. Thank you for the response!

[Roger Payne]

Thanks for the links. I just took a look at both of them. I must admit I can't recall seeing this phenomenon before, but I'll check out my later rifles when I get a minute. Having said that, nothing like this surprises me any more!

Both rifles appear to be genuine T's as is the bracket & scope on the former of the two. The Mk2 scope has of course been fitted as a replacement to the Mk3 that was originally on the rifle. You can just about make out a Mk3 serial number underneath the replacement number of the current scope. I really can't make out all of the original digits but perhaps it might be possible with the rifle in front of you? Looks like it could possible be 19138 or perhaps 19638. I don't think the replacement would have occurred in UK service, as I think it improbable that a Mk3 would have been replaced by an early type Mk2.

Nice REL scope tin.

But to come back to the D6E bit I cannot offer any explanation, but I do not think the rifles are fakes, if that is the concern. Some months ago I posted a picture of an early Holland & Holland conversion I have (BSA 1941) that bears the D6E on the knoxform; something else that should not exist, but I've now seen one or two like this. Coming back to 'your' rifle, it has been refinished & is a re-match, but it is real.

I'd be interested to know if anyone has a theory on this? Maybe Harry H noticed the outlying examiner at BSA had missed a few so added his stamp twice to make up for it!!

ATB.

[mjolnir2]

Roger,

Thank you so much for your time!

I took a look at the rifle this morning and added a few more pictures to the puzzle. I looked at the scope rings are they are numbered as expected where the number on the ring base versus upper match and it looks like were staked once the scope is mounted. I do not see any re-staking so is it possible that this rifle was originally equipped with a Mk2 scope and the butt was replaced?









Below is a copy of the rear pad with the duplicate D6E stamps and another shot the serial number of the other scope. I tried doing a rubbing (place a piece of paper on the number and lightly rub back and forth with a lead pencil) but it was unsuccessful. To me it looks like a 9. I also confirmed that serial number of rifle is on the barrel. Re-Park was done to the receiver and total length of the barrel. The are multiple inception marks in the barrel near the interface to the receiver.

[Roger Payne]

Thanks Thor. They say "never say 'never' or 'always' " with Lee Enfields, but having said that I think it unlikely that a Mk2 scope dated the year before would have been originally fitted to a 1945 dated Shirley rifle. What you say about the butt being swapped over & it originally having a Mk2 scope is possible, but I think unlikely. If you want to see the serial number of the rifle your butt was originally fitted to, then if you take it off the serial should be there on the part that is normally hidden inside the butt socket of the rifle. It may well be original to your rifle - & would fit in with the Mk3 scope serial number. However, to remove the butt you will need an armourer's brace, or (as Peter might say) a fXXXing big screwdriver!

ATB.

[Surpmil]

Surpmil: I, too, read Peter's book a while ago but I don't recall mention of D6E marks on both rear flats. I have quite a number of photos of this specific area on file and these two are the first I've seen like this. Does this suggest Harry Hardwick was moonlighting at BSA Shirley?

Ridolpho

We've discussed D7E stamps on unconverted TR marked rifles (I have one here) and even on regular No4s. I'm not sure what it means, except that we're not sure!