No4 mk1 or no4 mk* for Savage no4s. When was the changover please?

[lngstrt]

so ... ssj, were you assuming that the 1942 date should have a *?

At the other end of the scale, I have a Savage No4 Mk1 with a 1942 date and 5Cxxxx. When was the turn from 1941 to '42?

[muffett.2008]

31st Dec.

[Roger Payne]

Thanks for that invaluable contribution muff.

[muffett.2008]

I could be wrong Rog, it might be 1st Jan,


Sorry lads, just couldn't resist.

[lngstrt]

31st Dec.

[tlvaughn]

When was the turn from 1941 to '42?

According to Skennerton, the projected production was for 24,200 rifles by the end of 1941, but due to "non-delivery of important machine tools", production was delayed and by the end of 1941 only 1,325 rifles were completed. Like the MkI to MkI* changeover, there is also some overlap in 1941 and 1942 rifles. The lowest 1942 I have recorded is 0C1460 and the highest 1941 to date is 0C2904. Based on all of this, my assumption, and only an assumption, is that as stated by Skennerton, there were 1,325 rifles completed in 1941; however, there are approx. 2,500 to 2,900 1941 dated rifles.

With all of this said, I like muffett's answer better!!

[Homer]

You'll have to forgive muffer for his comments. He's Australian.

Here's a 22c MkI

[Surpmil]

Was it not established, here if not elsewhere, that Savage numbers appear to have been restarted at least once? Going from memory this may have been something to do with a Chinese contract??

That would not explain rifles so apparently widely separated in serial number (and therefore we assume, date of manufacture) being both MkI and MkI*s, unless the two serial number ranges were actually running concurrently and each taking completed rifles as they came off the line.

At least that would be my best guess with the info I have.

The only one I have is a OC59XX, 1942, No.4 Mk.I. It is US PROPERTY marked.

[tlvaughn]

I'm not aware of Savage restarting unless you are thinking about the addition of a fifth digit after the "C" once production exceeded 999,999 rifles. Serial numbers went from 0C1 to 99C9999 (4 digits after the C) and then starting with the one-millionth rifle added a fifth digit after the "C" - 0C00001. I'm not sure if the one-millionth rifle is 0C00000 or 0C00001.

I have only seen a handful of Chinese Lend Lease rifles, but the ones I have seen to date are in the 63C, 64C, 65C, 66C, and 73C blocks.

Double check the serial number on your 1941 or 1942, is it 5 digits after the "C" or 4 digits? The change from 4 digits to 5 digits occurred at the very end of the production in approx. mid-1944, so a 5 digit serial number after the "C" on a '41 or '42 would be very unusual, but as many have said, never say never.

[Peter Laidler]

There was a small arms instruction issued with ACI's to quartermasters and anyone else interested regarding the fact that some rifles currently being issued will have serial nukbers outside the normal this that and the other, they being the usual 0C- followed by 5 numbers. It also went on to say that they should be careful when registering these rifles as a situation could arise where it would appear that two rifles have the same serial number. Hardly likely but if something can happen....., guess what..........!

I am not sure about Savage re-starting numbering again either simply because Savage commenced rifle production for the UK Government simply as Government contractors, we told them what we wanted. What occurred afterwards when they were supplied as lend lkease is another matter. Suffice it to say the pattern and serial numbering remained.

I think I explained this in an article some time ago. The last of the Savage rifles went up to the 0C-382xx sort of figure as I seem to recall