Howdah Pistol - Double-Barrel Pin-Fire

[UNPROFOR1994]

The 45 acp has no rim so it won't fit and it will turn this antique in a hand grenade! The barrels don't have any Belgian nitro proof marks so I would treat it as a black powder pistol just to be safe.

Please just take it to a gun smith and ask him to slug the barrel so you get to know the exact calibre. Don't start experimenting, you'll end up hurting yourself or the friend who will be standing next to you.

[dttuner]

The 45 acp has no rim so it won't fit and it will turn this antique in a hand grenade! The barrels don't have any Belgian nitro proof marks so I would treat it as a black powder pistol just to be safe.

Please just take it to a gun smith and ask him to slug the barrel so you get to know the exact calibre. Don't start experimenting, you'll end up hurting yourself or the friend who will be standing next to you.

Not sure where the misunderstadning came from, but only an idiot would fire a gun willy-nilly like this. Period.

We were discussing possible calibers. The 45 ACP is nearly identical to a .410/45LC, width-wise.
This was for size/dimension purposes only. Never even closed the action with the round in.
Popped it out backwards with a chopstick.

[vintage hunter]

Fits like a glove.

It may look that way but I guarantee you it's a long way from it. DO NOT even consider shooting it with modern smokeless ammo regardless of how well it looks to fit. That gun was proofed for black powder.
I would like to see one more measurement if you don't mind. What is the size of the cartridge rim cut in the barrel breech face? It looks to be tapered so to get an accurate measurement you'll have to lay the caliper blades flat on the breech face and bracket the rim cut.......like this.

[dttuner]

It may look that way but I guarantee you it's a long way from it. DO NOT even consider shooting it with modern smokeless ammo regardless of how well it looks to fit. That gun was proofed for black powder.
I would like to see one more measurement if you don't mind. What is the size of the cartridge rim cut in the barrel breech face? It looks to be tapered so to get an accurate measurement you'll have to lay the caliper blades flat on the breech face and bracket the rim cut.......like this.

0.568 inches.

[vintage hunter]

Hey dttuner, don't take mine and UNPROFORCE1994's post the wrong way. It's a habit of mine, and I'm sure his too, to speak up when we see a potentially dangerous situation. Just in case. You'd be surprised at what I've seen people do with guns. Scares me sometimes. I have this neighbor who's dumb a$$ grand kid came to me with a top break .32 revolver that wouldn't extract/eject the empties. I was thinking a worn extractor/ejector but when I saw it that obviously wasn't the trouble. This kid knows nothing about guns, and obviously the even bigger adult dumb a$$ hardware store clerk that sold him the ammo didn't either. To make a long story short the dumb a$$ clerk just tried different types of 32 ammo till he found one that would ''fit''. What he found was .32ACP, the revolver was chambered for .32 S&W short, a low pressure BP round that survived the transition to smokeless. The ACP rounds fired but the hammer and higher pressures wedged them in the chambers so tight they had to be punched out from the front of the cylinder with a dowel. Only explanation I have for there not being a catastrophic failure was that the revolver just happened not to be one of the weak designs from the late 1800's.

[browningautorifle]

I don't have enough information on black powder ammo to be able to sort through line drawings for the right possibility. Besides, the reamers probably weren't exactly match quality. The theory of the .410 with the solid ball makes sense and the rim is close. It would have been black powder too... They made them in lots of now extinct cartridges...

[UNPROFOR1994]

I've seen quite a few of these Belgian double barreled pistols and even shot one, but they all were smooth bore and chambered for 36 gauge a.k.a. 12mm a.k.a. .410 shotgun cartridges.
Honestly, this is the first one I've ever seen with rifled barrels. The .410 solid ball theory does make sense, it would stabilize a solid projectile.

[vintage hunter]

I'm not completely sold on the .410 theory for various reasons. The dimensions are close but not that close. I'm fairly sure a 2'' .410 would fit and fire but not so sure a 2.5'' would or if the 2.5'' version even existed when this gun was made. A .410 RB would fall right through the bores and a conical would need to be ether a heel type or Minie ball to engage the rifling. However, I can find no reference to that type of .410 ammunition even being produced. Can anyone else? The rim cut diameter of the barrels is .045'' larger than modern .410's and could've let the extractor jump the rim if the rough chambers caused stiff extraction with brass cased shells.
I'm not convinced this gun was made as a .410 but, given the roughness of the chambers, I do think it's quite possible it could have been crudely modified later on to fire .410's.

[browningautorifle]

I'm not completely sold on the .410 theory

I completely agree, but it would need to be a bit closer to me so I could make a chamber cast and slug the bore. I did say the theory was close. None of the numbers match... Like I say, it could well be a cartridge we don't see any more. Neat gun though. I'd love to actually see it.

[UNPROFOR1994]

I guess the only way of narrowing down possibilties is to slug the barrel and make a chamber cast. Or find a second documented pistol.