Desperately Need Help Authenticating Jungle Carbine!

[browningautorifle]

I dont think anyone said so but the calibration is to 800yds and not 1300yds.

My sight also goes to 1300 not 800

just get a correct 800 yard rear sight

Yes, they did...

[Seaspriter]

so you guys think I should just keep the 1300 yard rear sight on here?

The gun was intended to have a 800 yd sight. The No4 sights (which yours has) is calibrated differently and will not aim your gun in the same place as a the No5 at long ranges.

No5 0 - 800 yard sight which was adopted to take into account its a) shorter sight radius and b) the lower Muzzle Velocity due to the shorter barrel.

(granted, if you are ever shooting 800 yards with a Jungle Carbine -- well that's another kind of story)

Go with the original configuration -- that's the right thing to do -- IMHO.

[mahbann]

sounds good, now I just need to find one online :P Is the mk1 the original sight for it or the mk2? Should I try to find a faz rear sight for originality purposes or should I just get a BSA one? also did these rifles actually see service in ww2? Being mine was made jan of 1945 maybe it was possible?

[Seaspriter]

Is the mk1 the original sight for it or the mk2?
Should I try to find a faz rear sight for originality purposes or should I just get a BSA one?
also did these rifles actually see service in ww2? Being mine was made jan of 1945 maybe it was possible?

- The Mk1 is the original sight, not the Mk2 (L) battlefield sight. Some had Mk3 stamped sights
- If your gun was a museum piece, I'd say be 100% authentic. But yours is a battle worn gun. Don't worry about if its a BSA or Faz sight. Take up scoobsean's offer.

I have a No5 backsight that came on my No4. I can trade you if you like?

- The Jungle Carbines saw lots of action after the D-Day invasion and in other smaller engagements in the late 1940s. (I think Captain Laidler surmised yours may have been in the Far East and possibly have been used by the Malaysian Police -often stamped with something like RMP on the left side of the butt socket ring). Given the condition of yours, it probably saw a lot of action -- you can surmise the stories.

As stated earlier by Captain Laidler:
"You ain't never going to win prizes but you'll have fun."

[scoobsean]

- The Mk1 is the original sight, not the Mk2 (L) battlefield sight. Some had Mk3 stamped sights
- If your gun was a museum piece, I'd say be 100% authentic. But yours is a battle worn gun. Don't worry about if its a BSA or Faz sight. Take up scoobsean's offer.
- The Jungle Carbines saw lots of action after the D-Day invasion and in other smaller engagements in the late 1940s. (I think Captain Laidler surmised yours may have been in the Far East and possibly have been used by the Malaysian Police -often stamped with something like RMP on the left side of the butt socket ring). Given the condition of yours, it probably saw a lot of action -- you can surmise the stories.

As stated earlier by Captain Laidler:
"You ain't never going to win prizes but you'll have fun."

Mine is a Singer Mk1, BSA

[scoobsean]

some photos of my sight. Not great quality, but you will get the ideaAttachment 63074Attachment 63075Attachment 63076

[mahbann]

Mine is a Singer Mk1, BSA

sounds good to me scoob! you guys are great I'm so thankful for all your info. To think I thought it was fake and was going to return it yesterday!!! I'm sorry if I keep asking dumb questions :/ As a history major I'm just so intrigued about this rifle! So how does one identify if it was used by malaysian police? I think Peter Laidler said it was the for-end? does patching indicate it was taken to the east? I don't see RMP anywhere on the rifle. My band that holds my fore-end and bottom wood is stamped M47A? also Right behind the bolt I see what looks like two keys crossed over each other? There are also a couple forward arrows near the bolt, on the bolt, the band, and on the rear sight. Does anyone know what this B stands for on the barrel? I know someone earlier stated it doesnt mean BSA especially in 1945. Can anyone tell me what this number on my bolt is?

[Seaspriter]

we ALWAYS packed the space between the barrel and the fore-end with grease XG279. Why oh why do you all insist on removing it? It's there for a reason chaps!

I only wish I had known of this great advice years earlier. I have a collection of 18th and 19th century flintlocks and percussions that should have had this treatment. Wood attracts water/humidity, which rusts metal.

The biggest problem you will have in North America is trying to find XG279 Grease. After a lot of research and dead ends, here's what I think is the best alternative (chaps, please correct me if I'm off base on this one or you have a better solution):

In a 1931 Lee Enfield Armourer's repair manual, they made reference to a 50-50 concoction of Bees Wax (candle wax is a reasonable substitute) and Mineral Jelly (same thing as "Vaseline") to coat any metal that contacts wood.

Picking up on that theme, I found an easy way to duplicate this "wood salve/balm (the two ingredients can only be combined by melting) Here's what I found was the most convenient way:
- first, take a glass jar (like a pickle jar or tomato sauce jar).
- find a single hotplate used for keeping a single mug of coffee warm -- the temperature will be about 150-160 degrees F, 66 degrees C
- put the wax in the jar on the hot plate and wait an hour -- by then it will have melted
- add in the Vaseline (or equivalent) and wait a half hour for it all to melt, then mix with a stirring stick to be sure it's now a unified mixture
- pour into smaller tins (like an empty shoe polish tin)
Once it cools, the melting point is about 125F-52C (which is well above the highest temperature these old girls will see on the firing range unless you like to bake her in the hot tropical sun).

Then apply to metal where it might contact wood. This includes barrel, receiver, and all steel butt plate screws (which when rusted are sooo hard to remove without buggering the heads) and swivel mounting screws in the butt stock.

Then apply to the wood in all areas where gun oil can saturate the wood, especially around the drawers. (Oil rot in wood from the chemicals in gun oil is one reason why so many M-1 rifles and carbines need new wood). The wax in the wood salve helps repel oil , preventing oil saturation of the drawers (which makes them soft and prone to compression.)

Overall the results I've had with this formula has been good. I've gone back to other guns in my collection and applied the wood salve to every buttplate screw, and have been pleasantly surprised how well they can be removed a year or two later.

As an added benefit, I've used this same wood salve on the runners of my antique chests of drawers (I used to use soap or candle wax). Now the drawers on these old chests run smooth as silk and should keep running smooth for generations to come. I've also used it to hold a nut in place on my fingertip while mounting on a bolt head in a tight space.

[mahbann]

Mine is a Singer Mk1, BSA

sounds good to me scoob! you guys are great I'm so thankful for all your info. To think I thought it was fake and was going to return it yesterday!!! I'm sorry if I keep asking dumb questions :/ As a history major I'm just so intrigued about this rifle! So how does one identify if it was used by malaysian police? I think Peter Laidler said it was the for-end? does patching indicate it was taken to the east? I don't see RMP anywhere on the rifle. My band that holds my fore-end and bottom wood is stamped M47A? also Right behind the bolt I see what looks like two keys crossed over each other? There are also a couple forward arrows near the bolt, on the bolt, the band, and on the rear sight. Does anyone know what this B stands for on the barrel? I know someone earlier stated it doesnt mean BSA especially in 1945. Can anyone also tell me what this number on my bolt is?

[Seaspriter]

M47 is the designation for made by Birmingham Small Arms (BSA)

FY is a Fazakerley designation

My error before: It's not RMP, its FMP -- Federation of Malaysian Police

The gun's receiver (from your first pictures) is a Faz, but it's constructed with both Faz and BSA components. This isn't unusual, and, as Capt. Laidler has said so often, when guns received repairs, the Armourers grabbed whatever parts were necessary to make the fix -- giving no regard for the part's origin. And many were built at the factory from mixed origin parts.

In M-1 parlance, this gun is referred to as a "mixmaster," which is not a degrading term, it just refers to the multitudes of repairs made to an old girl who's seen a lot of action in the field.

Please, don't worry about restoring this to a "pure" gun -- she's a mongrel now, always was, and should remain so. Let the gun's varied parts speak volumes to her colourful history. And don't worry about "dumb" questions -- I asked the same types of questions once, and fortunately a lot of patient members answered. But do go back through the multitude of threads (see bottom of this page to start) and see what many many others have learned. And be sure to read every one of Captain Laidler's expert advisory posts.