No4Mk1 accuracy

[Brian Dick]

All FTR means is that it was basically rebuilt to new condition post WWII which is good from the shooting standpoint. Savage supplied many replacement parts that were in the MoD system so that's what they used in your case. Go over and read Peter's article on this forum about proper fitting of forends. I won't argue that you may have a perceived improvement in the accuracy of your rifle but removing the bearing and floating the muzzle isn't the answer. Your forend may have needed other adjustments since wood does change and will warp, etc with time. The fact is that the No.4 was not originally designed to be free floated at the muzzle. Much more extensive testing and retesting was done by the MoD as Peter states above.

[303carbine]

Hi Brian, I got an answer to an email that I sent to Ian Skennerton, I asked him about the bedding of the No4 barrel.
He replied that the muzzle bedding was eliminated during the war years as it was not a problem as it was with the No1Mk111 rifle.
I got the feeling he really wants to sell me another book.

[Brian Dick]

I've had hundreds of No.4 rifles through here and I've never seen a wartime No.4 free floated at the muzzle except for some Indian owned rifles, (including a nice No.4Mk.1T), so I seriously doubt it was a common practice in British and Commonwealth service even though there was a wartime relaxation of standards. It's all about barrel harmonics otherwise known in layman's terms as the "tuning fork effect". I'd suggest that you read post #9 again and then read, reread and then read again the article on proper forend fitting written for this forum and this forum only by Peter Laidler who actually worked on these rifles during his long career as a REAL REME Armourer in the British Army. I know Ian very well and he writes fine books but there's a big difference. I've been learning to do this work for well over twenty years and as I said before, I'm still learning and will never be an expert.

[303carbine]

I have no doubt that there is a correct amount of upward pressure and I will revisit it and do some shimming to find the correct pressure for my rifle.
I shot it before doing anything to it at all, it was after I removed the wood at the muzzle did the accuracy dramatically improve, perhaps there was too much upward muzzle bearing.
There is still a bit of pressure, just not the upward 45 lbs or so it had, there was also some wood warping causing pressure on one side of the wood as well.
I am going to place two targets side by side at 50 yds and try 10 rounds off the bench as it is, then I am going to add a small shim under the muzzle that will be close to 5 lb and shoot another 10 rounds.

[303carbine]

I had a good read of Mr. Laidlers articles on fore end fitting, it makes a lot of sense and I will be trying his methods. 3 to 7lbs sounds more realistic than the 45 lb that was there due to warping of the fore end.
I found another high spot in the No4 barrel channel, the article said the barrel needed to be free all the way to the tip.
I relieved the small pressure point on the side of the barrel, now there appears to be appropriate amount of upward muzzle pressure.
I am going to have to do some reloading and more testing this weekend when I get the chance.

[303carbine]

Over the past two days I have been testing the No4 again, I applied the bedding as per Mr. Laidlers instructions.
I tested the rifle with the same rest, same ammo , same distance, same target on two consecutive days.
First off with the bedded rifle, I shot a dismal four inch group at 55 yds with 174 grain Hornady's over 37 grains of IMR 3031.
Next day with the bedding removed and barrel tip free floated, same target etc., I shot another four shot group, I shot a triangular group that measured
1& 1/4 inch x 1 & 1/4 inch x 3/8ths inch with two bullets touching.
I guess my rifle just doesn't like the bedding at the tip.

[brent65]

Mmmmmmmmmm. I wonder just how accurate your now muzzle bearing-less No4 rifle would shoot if it were to be subject to something more scientific. Scientific like the post war trials held to ascertain the most accurate and reliable method of stocking up. Or tested from an Enfield Rest which is designed to eliminate all traces of human interference, however small.

The strange part about your findings is that they clash with the 1946/7 trials NOT of the No4T sniper rifle, but the bog standard rifle which clearly and distinctly states that the wartime expedient of eliminating the muzzle bearing will cease forthwith. Or words to that effect. Just my view of course, probably shared by one or two others I'd say

So what's your opinion on the target shooters using mid or centre bearing bedding with fully floated front on No4's then? Seemed to be the method of choice back in the day and used by just about everybody that was remotely competitive also was the bedding method of choice by Parker Hale.

[CINDERS]

So what 1 No.4 dislikes (Front pressure) another may just love so I say it is what it is.

[rayg]

Over the past two days I have been testing the No4 again, I applied the bedding as per Mr. Laidlers instructions.
I tested the rifle with the same rest, same ammo , same distance, same target on two consecutive days.
First off with the bedded rifle, I shot a dismal four inch group at 55 yds with 174 grain Hornady's over 37 grains of IMR 3031.
Next day with the bedding removed and barrel tip free floated, same target etc., I shot another four shot group, I shot a triangular group that measured
1& 1/4 inch x 1 & 1/4 inch x 3/8ths inch with two bullets touching.
I guess my rifle just doesn't like the bedding at the tip.

It appears as though every rifle has a mind of it's own, Ray Attachment 68427

[30Three]

Some rifles that have been worked on by Fulton's of Bisley do not have the up pressure at the muzzle. However they have moved the up pressure bedding to further down the barrel so it still has up pressure, just not in the same place. I have a Fultons No4 M1/2 and the muzzle definitely has clearance in all directions. That said; they are the exceptions to the rule. The standard rifle has the pressure applied at the muzzle. This is also true of the No1. But the up pressure needs to be set after checking the contact at the draws and under the knox form etc; it is one part of the puzzle that is Enfield accuracy!