My Carbines, Old and New - with a twist

[Sleeplessnashadow]

The two firearms Williams created that I found most interesting were the modified Remington Model 8 he did while in prison and the Winchester Model G30. I was able to get access to the Remington Model 8 for photos thanks to the exhibit designer in charge of the Williams workshop in the North Carolina Museum of History. This "carbine" was one of my primary targets for examination given the various claims that related this gun to the design of the M1 Carbine. This is the same "carbine" Williams took to Hollywood and Stewart carried in the movie. And the same carbine Williams was filmed explaining it's origins to Stewart as the origin of the M1 Carbine design. Also later filmed with Williams sharing a variation of the story with Ross Beard Jr.

Remington Model 8 in .35 Remington
Attachment 65776

Williams Modified Version, on display in the North Carolina Museum of History.
Attachment 65777 Attachment 65778 Attachment 65779 Attachment 65780

The short stroke piston created using the chamber, showing the full rear point of travel vs. the full forward point of travel.....
Attachment 65781

With what it looked like from outside the rifle.
Attachment 65782

The first Williams patent application for a short stroke "vibrator", application dated February 7, 1931.
Attachment 65799

At Winchester, Williams initially modified the Jonathan Edmund Browning rifle design using a gas piston similar to that used by Garand in his Model M1 rifle. His second try he utilized a short stroke gas piston outside and below the chamber. Rifle on display at the Cody Museum, where this pic was taken. Patent drawing from the Williams/Winchester patent. (Note: References to "Winchester" patents includes Winchester under it's various changing names, such as Western Cartridge Co.)
Attachment 65783 Attachment 65784

A Williams redesign produced the Winchester Model 30 7 1/2 lb rifle that convinced Pugsley to contact Ordnance regarding a late entry into the light rifle trials. This rifle is on display at the Cody Museum where this pic was taken. The barrel pictures were a spare barrel for the Winchester Model G30 in the Williams Workshop at the North Carolina Museum of History.
Attachment 65785 Attachment 65786 Attachment 65787

Winchester's 1st submission to the light rifle trials. Carbine on display at the Cody Museum.
Attachment 65788 Attachment 65789

Winchester's 2nd submission to the light rifle trials and the prototype that won Winchester the contract for the U.S. Caliber .30 Carbine, Model M1. Photos by George Dillman, carbine on display at the Cody Museum.
Attachment 65790 Attachment 65791

The Williams/Winchester patent for the M1 Carbine.
Attachment 65800

The carbine invented by Williams, completed after the competition deadline. Carbine on display below the two Winchester prototypes at the Cody Museum where the color pic below was taken.
Attachment 65792 Attachment 65793
Attachment 65794 Attachment 65795

The Williams/Winchester patent for the Williams carbine design.
Attachment 65798

The Winchester .224 rifle submitted for the light rifle trials, construction credited to Ralph E. Clarkson. A slightly larger version of the Williams design. On display at the Cody Museum
Attachment 65796 Attachment 65797

Unfortunately we have no color pics of the internal mechanisms of many of these rifles as museum policies understandably prohibit disassembly of their firearms. Which includes removing the action from the stock. B&W photos above were taken by U.S. Army Ordnance at or near the time the rifle was evaluated. We lucked out with the modified Remington Model 8 as the museum curators and exhibit supervisor wanted to document the mechanism.

I did not find a patent for the Winchester .224 rifle but Ordnance pics of it's internal parts are near identical to the Williams carbine. Winchester may have relied on the Williams patent of the carbine he designed.

Jim

The display for the Army Light Rifle Project at The Cody Museum
Attachment 65801

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[Seaspriter]

Evolution of the Williams Short Stroke Gas Piston

Great stories Jim. What a journey into the real story behind the scenes. Fascinating and revealing. Quite valuable. I love to learn about the evolution of things -- you've given us some real insights.
Thanks, Robert