LE #1 Butt Plate -- Different sizes for different length butstocks?

[MrGriso]

And don't forget MrGrisso that there is also a method of actually fitting the butt to the rifle, getting the tapered butt socket perfectly matched to the tapered butt socket of the rifle. Absolutely NO wobble or slack permitted

Good point! Been thinking about that step as well. It is probably the first thing I'll be working on, seeing if it slips in easily but not TOO easily, and how it all lines up once the bolt is tightened down. And as you say, with no wobble.

If not, do what needs doing. The stage of making the wood look pretty will have to come after that.

And thanks for the tip on how to re-do the screw holes. I will keep it in mind.

[Peter Laidler]

I would read the article on fitting the butt but there muist be a gap between the butt socket and the wood when the stock bolt is pulled up tight. The width of a hacksaw blade was the accepted norm.

[MrGriso]

Thank you again Peter. I assume you mean the article titled. "BUTTS, fitting new or refitting old...". Just skimmed it so far. Good stuff. Seems to be very useful instructions. My girlfriend found the title hilarious for some reason.

I will print it out so I can give it a proper read.

Is it correct that I must pull off the handguard piece before removing the buttstock screw? I read somewhere that this is true of the #1 but not the #4.

[Peter Laidler]

No need to remove the fore-end of the No4 before removing the butt

[MrGriso]

No need to remove the fore-end of the No4 before removing the butt

Okay, so it is true of the #1? That's the type in question. I don't worry about doing that. I've done it often enough over the years.

[Flying10uk]

Peter, a couple of questions which I like to ask you, please. Will the brass butt plates withstand much careful tweaking/bending without breaking if we feel the need? I'm guessing they wont because they are cast brass. Also did the WW2 manufactured No4 rifles still in British service post war that you came into contact with normally have the aluminium alloy butt plate replaced with the brass one or were there quite a few rifles about still with the alloy butt plate? I think that all the No4 rifles which I saw in the cadets during the 1980s all had brass butt plates; I don't remember ever seeing alloy ones. Thank-you.

[Peter Laidler]

There were still plenty of alloy butt plates around in the 80's and 90's when they were withdrawn. The trouble with the alloy ones was that they were not cast but sintered (? might not be strictly correct I fear but close.....) so they'd fracture and snap VERY easily. Whereas the cast and machined brass were a lot more forgiving. The true answer re longevity is that if they weren't broke, we didn't replace them. I don't think that there's a reason to bend a butt plate to fit. You rasp-to-shape the butt to fit the butt plate

[Thunderbox]

No1 buttplates do vary in length, and its almost as if some were intended for different size butts. Given that tapered butts would require different length plates if a perfect fit was intended (looking at the way they made Long Lee and No1 rifles), it makes sense that someone at least must have calculated the dimensions required. However, as different dimensions for "sized" buttplates don't appear in any of the usual sources, perhaps they were abandoned - or perhaps they were in instructions to contractors that have now been lost to history?



These two were random specimens from the small stock of butt plates I had at the time. Although the length difference doesn't look much in the photo, the length x width increment gave the two very different "fit" onto butts. The right one was a perfect fit on "L" butts, whereas the left one fit "N" or "S" nicely. Note that the top screw hole and tang are perfectly aligned, which is what you find in all of the buttplates, and which is to be expected if the top of the butt was used as the fixed datum point.


You can't tell from the photo, but both were relatively unworn and properly finished - i.e. neither was a repro or something similar. Given the very high tolerances evident in other No1 components, it is odd that these decently manufactured plates can have so much variation.

[Peter Laidler]

Sorry to disagree Thunderbox - and we've never disagreed before, but if it was anything but a manufacturing tolerance or having been 'shaped-to-fit' by an Armourer or so in the past then there would be a different part number to indicate such a difference.

[Thunderbox]

Hi Peter,

I don't think we're disagreeing, as its perfectly clear: no part number = no such part.

I was just musing that it is odd - but no doubt coincidental - that you do find "large" and "small" No1 buttplates that happen to perfectly fit "L" and "S"/"B" butts. By contrast, No4 butt plates are pretty much all identical length, regardless of manufacturer.