L42 To good to be true.

[mrclark303]

Spot on Peter, pointless indeed, but the law is the law and we have to follow it to the letter unfortunately, we have all seen milsurps that are not in (legal) proof on the range.

By way of example, a certain large UK dealer sold a friend of mine an Enfield last year, he was very pleased with it and brought it round for some advice regarding changing the furniture, on inspection, no civvy proof. As he is quite new to shooting I spoke to them on his behalf, confident that this rifle had just slipped through by mistake and it could all be taken care of ... Not a bit of it, I was "told" by the rather snotty owner that military proof marks are adequate and that I had no idea what I was talking about ...

I suggested he might want to read up and call me back, he did, apologised and the rifle was collected proofed and returned. But how many had he sold prior to this, if something goes wrong and there is an accident with one (god forbid) he will be hung out to dry by the Police and his business insurance ... broke and banged up for the sake of a £50 proof!

The flip side of the coin, if you are shooting said rifle and its goes "bang" and injures your neighbour in the next shooting point, your shooting insurance will be invalid and quite possibly your FAC, as you aren't following the set conditions.

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[Gil Boyd]

Absolutely correct and the reason I raised it on this particular rifle, as I see the 19T clearly where it appears but no barrel marks tendered to be able to balance my views.
Having served, I can assure you, it is the Law here in the UK that ALL rifles have to carry a recognised CIV proof mark if sold as Sec 1/5 weapons.
Heaven knows, this may all change if EU legislation goes through causing more confusion yet AGAIN!
With this mark, one can feel confident that ALL the required tests have been carried out by a registered and recognised house here, and the rifle is as safe as its owner there after.
Military symbols are of great historic significance to all of us that love shooting history, but it has to be right and lawful.
Any views?

[Buccaneer]

he will be hung out to dry by the Police

Proof house regulations are just that, regulations that are made up and administrated by the proof houses, they are nothing to do with the law and as such the police would not be interested in trying to enforce them. I have no doubt though that if something nasty was to happen then criminal negligence charges would be pursued.
On a point made earlier re the fitting of already proofed parts as spares, all of the gunsmiths that I know would routinely return a repaired firearm for re-proof.
The proofmarks are datable which means that in theory a firearm could be assembled using parts carrying proof marks but it in itself would never have been proofed as a complete gun unless re-submitted.