IBM Real or Fake

[imntxs554]

I been going through 2 IBM Carbines with this seller....The first one was fake or had some problems that didn't look right. Now he sent over these pics of his 2nd IBM and see some parts that don't seem quite right. Does anyone see problems with this one ? Maybe he was trying to unload the one that had a couple of fake parts and didn't know I knew. I got some great help at the collector club forum. Then he said I have another IBM and attached these pics that weren't on the others he posted that I looked at already. TIA ! Attachment 70323Attachment 70324Attachment 70325Attachment 70326

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[carwashchris]

Frank, Just MHO the rear sights I have that have the circular milling are fake, I like the the front sight. The band I like, but the swivel is not the same color maybe a red flag ??

Best Chris

[imntxs554]

Thanks Chris...That's why I showed that T1 Band...I've never bought a Carbine with a T1 and those milling marks on the Sight was questionable. I did buy a IBM Rear Sight awhile back that is Real. But since he tried to unload his first IBM I did see too many unusual parts and told him forget it. But last night Chris he emailed me and said he had another one and would send me pics this morning and said "Make on Offer" Thanks Chris for your help. I'm just wondering when I told him yesterday the one he showed me was fake he knows now what I'm looking at then offered this. Thank You.

Frank

[Sentryduty]

Has he shared the serial number between the two guns, maybe he is just trying different fake bits on the same gun until he hooks someone? LOL.

[deldriver]

If someone offered me up one that you knew was faked up, I wouldn't in a million years consider buying anything from him. I mean that's how I'd deal with the guy anyway.

[imntxs554]

Has he shared the serial number between the two guns, maybe he is just trying different fake bits on the same gun until he hooks someone? LOL.

Yeah, There are 2 different Carbines with 2 different S/N's. I can tell there different from the way each one looks. I just asked him to send another pic to make sure that there was only a T1 band and not a T1 or 3. The Barrel looks like there was no Lug on on it. So he did ask me to make a offer. I'm just trying to give him a honest offer.

---------- Post added at 01:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:07 PM ----------

I been searching for days for a Nice IBM with a Flip Sight, Nice Wood and has some good IBM parts. I been wanting one for quite awhile. I was going to sell my NPM, but only got reasonable offers and not that many, so I decided to keep it. I have a Mix Master IBM, but no where near the one I want.

Frank

[Sentryduty]

I'm just trying to give him a honest offer.

I see, I wonder if it is a case of legitimate fakery (malice) on the seller's part or a case of lack of education (unwitting).

I will say you US based M1 carbine collectors have a very interesting market segment, the regional values and proliferation of faked parts is incredible. The amount of knowledge and scrutiny that these individual rifle parts are subject to is staggering. Especially considering these are "common" military rifles with some 6 million originals out there, I wouldn't think there would be any need to fake these things, but here we are.

Honestly it makes me glad I collect to shoot, and not to chase perfect originals.

Hats off to you fellows.

[deldriver]

I see, I wonder if it is a case of legitimate fakery (malice) on the seller's part or a case of lack of education (unwitting).

I will say you US based M1 carbine collectors have a very interesting market segment, the regional values and proliferation of faked parts is incredible. The amount of knowledge and scrutiny that these individual rifle parts are subject to is staggering. Especially considering these are "common" military rifles with some 6 million originals out there, I wouldn't think there would be any need to fake these things, but here we are.

Honestly it makes me glad I collect to shoot, and not to chase perfect originals.

Hats off to you fellows.

The problem, if you want to look at it this way, is there's not 6 million left in original condition since so many have been rearsenaled. That simple fact means collectors go gaga over carbines with mainly (often early) original features still left on them. That desire for those original features mean unscrupulous people will fake parts and pass them off as real. It's kind of a never ending circle of demand, greed, fraud and so on. I am beginning to hate this hobby and have adopted a certain approach to it to keep me from getting hosed too bad. Good luck to those who are just starting out or are gullible.

---------- Post added at 03:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:20 PM ----------

Yeah, There are 2 different Carbines with 2 different S/N's. I can tell there different from the way each one looks. I just asked him to send another pic to make sure that there was only a T1 band and not a T1 or 3. The Barrel looks like there was no Lug on on it. So he did ask me to make a offer. I'm just trying to give him a honest offer.

---------- Post added at 01:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:07 PM ----------

I been searching for days for a Nice IBM with a Flip Sight, Nice Wood and has some good IBM parts. I been wanting one for quite awhile. I was going to sell my NPM, but only got reasonable offers and not that many, so I decided to keep it. I have a Mix Master IBM, but no where near the one I want.

Frank

Frank, be careful. For some reason IBM carbines and their parts are often some of the most faked items out there. It's like someone in China said, hey let's pick one with lots of name recognition and make lots of stuff for them. I would still stay away from that seller.

[ChipS]

I see, I wonder if it is a case of legitimate fakery (malice) on the seller's part or a case of lack of education (unwitting).

I will say you US based M1 carbine collectors have a very interesting market segment, the regional values and proliferation of faked parts is incredible. The amount of knowledge and scrutiny that these individual rifle parts are subject to is staggering. Especially considering these are "common" military rifles with some 6 million originals out there, I wouldn't think there would be any need to fake these things, but here we are.

Honestly it makes me glad I collect to shoot, and not to chase perfect originals.

Hats off to you fellows.

Sentry:

Didn't you mean to say 'intentional fakery'? I don't think there is such a thing as 'legitimate' fakery!!! But maybe that's just me. LOL

Re the incredible proliferation of faked parts, I too am astounded but not really surprised. I know I sound like a broken record, but I keep remembering Neal Meyers' post of a few years ago noting that 'in ten years there will be so many fakes in the market that nobody will be able to tell the difference' (paraphrase). I think this is a profound and absolutely spot-on prophecy, particularly as the young collectors come up. It's a 'Catch 22' situation. We need to post/publish what is wrong with the fakes to keep the newbys from buying them, but if we do the humpers will read and improve their products until they are all but impossible to detect, at which point they become defacto 'original' to the next generation of newbys. Too bad, but unfortunately life is seldom totally fair, just and honorable. Semper Fi, ChipS

[imntxs554]

Sentry...I don't Collect t for perfection I can show you a safe with lots of mix up Carbines. I just would like to get Nice IBM. That's one Carbine that has eluded me. The one I do have I think the only IBM Parts it has is the Barrel and Receiver. I know there some more out there with more IBM Parts and looks nicer than what I have...That's what I'm chasing.

Frank

Nots: That Co. Granger you see on GB are they Legit. With prices like that I would hope so. If I was to find a Nice IBM through them I would buy it. But then again I've never heard anyone talk about them