1st post! Ishapore 2a1 sporter restoration

[MosinVirus]

The DP stock has been cut for the cupped buttplate and was re-shaped (it was much wider/thicker). This picture was taken after it was just oiled, so it is very light in the image, but it got darker as the oil got deeper.

[MosinVirus]

Hello all, and especially Mr. Laidler,

As I was checking out my bolt to receiver fit, I noticed that with a bolt and bolt head in the receiver I get a lot of play forward and backward. It seems to be that this should never be the case, so here are some pictures of how much room I get between the lug and the receiver when I push the bolt forward and when I let go.

I am pretty sure that the absence of extractor has nothing to do with it, but I may be wrong.
This is just stripped bolt head and bolt body.

bolt moved forward as far as it goes:


Bolt at the front of play:


bolt at the rear of play:


Lugs:







Do I have a problem here?

[bigduke6]

No.... there will be slight play and more noticeable as you don't have the bolt assembled ( no striker etc ). In this state is a perfect opportunity to apply some engineering blue to the bolt lugs and see if they are equally contacting the shoulders of the body....... there is an article by Peter Laidler covering the fitting of a bolt head but covers this simple test to start with, (its one of a few things I do before stripping a rifle for restoration etc).

Link to Peters Article: http://photos.imageevent.com/badgerd...0boltheads.pdf


Its probably one of the rifles that I'd be more cautious with from the start, although mine was in an appalling state (Threads secured with bits of paper, card, gunge etc)

I don't know if this was done in service, or on the family kitchen table, but if the finish of these is anything to go by it does make you wonder........ the other thing is the calibre of these, was the previous owner or owners stoking up his home loads or using the same loads he uses in a modern target rifle ?

I,ve witnessed this although it was No4, the lad was trying to open the bolt with a hammer........

[Peter Laidler]

Big Duke is right. There IS a bit of forward movement of the bolt when it is stripped. This is how we test for the correct bearing of the bolt locking lugs (read article). With the bolt assembled you won't realise this because the extractor acts to cam the bolt rearwards

[MosinVirus]

No.... there will be slight play and more noticeable as you don't have the bolt assembled ( no striker etc ). In this state is a perfect opportunity to apply some engineering blue to the bolt lugs and see if they are equally contacting the shoulders of the body....... there is an article by Peter Laidler covering the fitting of a bolt head but covers this simple test to start with, (its one of a few things I do before stripping a rifle for restoration etc).

Link to Peters Article: http://photos.imageevent.com/badgerd...0boltheads.pdf


Its probably one of the rifles that I'd be more cautious with from the start, although mine was in an appalling state (Threads secured with bits of paper, card, gunge etc)

I don't know if this was done in service, or on the family kitchen table, but if the finish of these is anything to go by it does make you wonder........ the other thing is the calibre of these, was the previous owner or owners stoking up his home loads or using the same loads he uses in a modern target rifle ?

I,ve witnessed this although it was No4, the lad was trying to open the bolt with a hammer........

Big Duke is right. There IS a bit of forward movement of the bolt when it is stripped. This is how we test for the correct bearing of the bolt locking lugs (read article). With the bolt assembled you won't realise this because the extractor acts to cam the bolt rearwards

Thank you both. I panic-ordered a bolt body and bolt head, but I figure I could always use spare parts.
I will certainly read the article and perform the test you mentioned to see if the contact is even on both lugs.

Thank you again for being a part of the forum and sharing your knowledge.

EDIT: Just read the article. WOW!!! Great information with a lot of detail. I will do some checking on my bolt for sure.

[Colonel Enfield]

Just wanted to say thanks for documenting this - I'm deeply impressed by your skills; this has been an extremely informative thread!

[MosinVirus]

I wend ahead and started checking my bolt against the article written by Peter. Once again, great thanks for making this information available.

I don't have any gauges, so for now I decided to check everything else.

Upon closer examination of the Lug contact areas I have discovered that both sides of the receiver engagement surfaces are peened/deformed. However, as expected I found the lugs do contact the receiver evenly (no surprise since the lugs peened the receiver). I used layout black that transfers on contact, applied very little on both engagement surfaces of the receiver using a dry brush, put the bolt in while forcing it forward, and then moved it back and forth when in locked position (as per the article)

Both engagement surfaces peened:



Looking at the short lug on the bolt, I found peening and deformation on both sides, which makes me suspect the bolt body is softer than it should be.



Then I proceeded to check for cocking piece lift when the bolt head is fully screwed on. No lift or not enough lift. Also noticed that the cocking piece was actually deformed from slamming into the back of the bolt body.

Here is an image of the contact when the bolt head is fully screwed on, and the cocking piece is in "fired" position. You can see the deformation on the inside corner of the "L" shape





The striker is screwed in all the way to be "level" with the back of the cocking piece



Protrusion (I haven't measured it because I would first like to figure out the more important things).



Here is how the bolt head tennon face looks. Doesn't seem like it was machined, and there is definite evidence of peening (again, peening), so that may explain why the cocking piece doesn't lift off enough.



Here is me experimenting...

Turn the striker out one turn,



And, we have lift (obviously) when the bolt head is screwed in all the way. I start to feel contact with the striker sleeve 3/4 turn before the bolt head stops.





I figure that the protrusion shouldn't really change since the Bolt head tennon is preventing the striker from coming forward more.



As before, I would appreciate any feedback and direction as to how to proceed. At this point I have a new bolt head, cocking piece, bolt body, striker and striker spring coming.

[Patrick Chadwick]

It went as far as before. Or not far enough. The tip of the bolt gets to about 1/4" short of being even with the head of the buttstock. Could this bolt have been shortened?

I presume that the "new" buttstock is not, in fact, ex-factory, but also a reclaimed component from a stripped-down rifle. In which case, there may well be a (spring) washer of some sort firmly stuck down the hole. I have experienced this on a No.III butt. If you fail to spot it and add a second washer on top, the stock bolt is going to be too short. Been there, done that, had to make a tight hook on a piece of steel rod to hook into the washer and get it out - together with a fossilized leather washer!

Otherwise, you're doing well. Keep it up!

[MosinVirus]

I presume that the "new" buttstock is not, in fact, ex-factory, but also a reclaimed component from a stripped-down rifle. In which case, there may well be a (spring) washer of some sort firmly stuck down the hole. I have experienced this on a No.III butt. If you fail to spot it and add a second washer on top, the stock bolt is going to be too short. Been there, done that, had to make a tight hook on a piece of steel rod to hook into the washer and get it out - together with a fossilized leather washer!

Otherwise, you're doing well. Keep it up!

Thank you. I will try and check it out. Currently I can only see a flat steel washer in there, but I will try digging and see if something else is under it.

[Brian Dick]

Your firing pin protrusion looks to be on the high side. It should be .040 low and .050 high. I'd worry about the hardening in the locking recesses in the body being worn through. If that's the case, it's ZF. Most know my opinion on the RFI 2A/2A1. The barrel may be clean looking but that doesn't mean they haven't been shot to death, literally. The 7.62 caliber stresses the body to it absolute limitations.