Ross Mk2***

[upperfarm]

I have acquired a Ross Mk2*** that appears to be unaltered from its issue condition, except for the US markings behind the trigger guard on the underside of the stock, and some varnish of some type that was applied in the past that does not look like it was done by the military. There are no markings to indicate the chamber was resized. The rifle was manufactured in 1908.

After cleaning the rifle, and checking and lubricating the bolt, I have fired it remotely 4 times from a secured bench, with some typing paper wrapped around the receiver for each shot. The rifle appeared to function flawlessly, with not blow by noticeable on the paper. There was no deformation of the fired brass that was evident.

Three questions:
1. If the bolt is working properly, is it worth taking it apart and inspecting? Not sure I want to tackle that at this time. Sounds like putting it back together can be an issue. Can I partially disassemble it to make sure it is clean??
2. Is there any other testing I should perform before shooting regularly? (The way I understand the Mk2 1905, it does not have any of the potential bolt issues that the Mk III 1910 version had. I have reviewed the "Forgotten Weapons" video showing testing of the Ross, and they state that the Mk2 is a completely different beast than the Mk III. )
3. What was the original stock finish on this rifle? I suspect linseed oil, but can't seem to find any info on line yet. The current varnish that was installed was slopped on, and I want to get the rifle back to "original" condition.
4. What kind of sling was issued with this rifle? Are there any decent reproductions available?

Thanks in advance.

upperfarm




1.

Information

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[Surpmil]

It would be surprising to find a MkII Ross supplied to the USA that did not have a reamed oversize chamber. Some folks did address this later by setting the barrel back and re-cutting the chamber.

Regarding your questions:
1. If the rifle is working well and is reasonably clean, there is perhaps no good reason for taking the bolt apart.
2. I have seen a MkII that was the victim of a concerted effort to blow it up by plugging the bore etc. In the end they cracked the side wall on the receiver, but it did not let go. Condition of the bore is probably your first concern: obstructions, ringing, anything which could become a safety issue via a lodged bullet jacket or some such problem.
3. I would wipe the stock down with soap and water and re-oil when dry, but no steel wooling, sanding or stripping. The patina is irreplaceable and like furniture, once lost a lot of the value is lost.
4. Sling I'm not sure about, but either leather or perhaps one of the No-Buckle variety. I believe repros of the leather sling are made by Moore Leather

[upperfarm]

My concern with the stock finish is that it looks like someone varnished it in the past, and the varnish surface is mottled, almost like moisture pentetrated the finish and popped it off in some places. They slopped the varnish over the metal bands, and on the barrel. Also, it must have been in a room that was painted, because there are small spots of white paint on the stock. I have attached some photos I took a day or so ago. Did the US military varnish the rifles when they were received from Canada? If so, I think leaving it alone is best, that is just the way the rifle is aging, and it does not affect shooting. I'm told by some of my finish carpenter friends that applying oil over a varnish finish is not good. Any thoughts after looking at the photos.

[browningautorifle]

Did the US military varnish the rifles when they were received from Canada

I don't know of any time the US used varnish on their stocks. It's been done by Uncle Elmer and so was the paint splashes. Go ahead and strip it and oil it. Acetone or mineral spirits will take it off the metal, liquid strip off the wood.

[browningautorifle]

1. If the bolt is working properly, is it worth taking it apart and inspecting? Not sure I want to tackle that at this time. Sounds like putting it back together can be an issue. Can I partially disassemble it to make sure it is clean??

I agree that if it functions, leave it alone. I'd wash it in varsol or some other before I'd strip it.

[Surpmil]

From the photos what you have there is mold that has been living on the linseed oil or varnish. A light rubbing with extra fine steel wool should get that off. If you think a fungicide is needed, oil of thyme is probably stronger than bleach and without the bleaching.

Unlikely for mold to grow on top of varnish unless there is something in it they can feed on, which there might be in a very, very old varnish. Alternatively, there was enough biomatter of some kind on top of the varnish for the mold to live on. If it is varnished you'll soon see if you start steel wooling a few spots.

So either way, some careful exploration with XXXX steel wool will reveal what it is. If it is varnished and chipped badly as it appears to be near the muzzle band, then you face the choice of leaving it alone or stripping the stock. Probably before it was varnished it was cleaned with acetone or naptha to remove the pre-existing oil, so either way, if you strip it you're going to end up with that smooth matt look that says, "someone removed 100 years of patina, come back in 100 years when I've got it back again". Like a piece of fine furniture, stripping is bad news for old guns too. Value goes with the patina.

If it was mine I would carefully remove all the metal parts and disassemble them and use BBQ cleaner or similar to clean off all the crud and old grease and oil. When you've got it all clean and dry and re-oiled, then if the bluing looks very good, you might find that you really have no choice but to strip and refinish the stock. If the bluing is poor, it might look better with the dirt cleaned off the stock and a good rubdown with wax. Either way, the ingrained dirt needs to come off the metal. I see a lot of that fine, brown rust that can be removed with care, to reveal what is left of the blue underneath. A small stainless brush in a dremel tool can get a lot of that off, if you're careful not to go too far. A headband magnifier and plenty of light helps to prevent that.

Best to avoid chemical strippers on the stock if you can as they will clean out all the pores of the wood and totally destroy the base that patina is built on. If possible, us a cabinet scraper with great care, so as to remove only the varnish and leave whatever foundation there may still be in the pores of the wood for you to rebuild your new finish on. Old varnish is often very brittle so it may come off very easily. Of course if the varnish is all over the inletting of the stock as well as the outside, you really have no choice but chemical stripping.

Confused yet?

[browningautorifle]

From the photos what you have there is mold

That's not mold, that's lifting varnish. Scraping the wood will remove all surface, let alone patina. If you have to refinish the wood, there'll be no patina left.

Confused yet?

If you wonder if you've confused the OP, then why do it?

[Surpmil]

That's not mold, that's lifting varnish. Scraping the wood will remove all surface, let alone patina. If you have to refinish the wood, there'll be no patina left.

If you wonder if you've confused the OP, then why do it?

I disagree, when varish lifts, it shows as a raised area, hence the term "lifting". The flaking off of the finish on the upper part of the forend is clear in the photos, but we'll let the OP tell us what he finds.

The last sentence is a joking remark. Do you really think I typed all that out to confuse the OP?

[browningautorifle]

Do you really think I typed all that out to confuse the OP?

It sure looks like it.

[upperfarm]

Update: I had a similar question on the finish of a Carcano rifle that had been lathered up in a similar manner, and in the course of that discussion have found that the Ross Mk2 I have was coated with shellac. The coating was easily removed with denatured ethyl alcohol in a few places, and the wood underneath looks like it was not sanded, and the wood retains a coloring that I think will be ok when I use linseed oil over the cleaned area. I think what I have is called a "treacle" rifle, I searched on this site and found numerous posts to that affect. If you want, look at Patrick's answer on the Carcono TS Moschetta finish post I did earlier this month. PS-For what it is worth, I'm neither confused or offended, I got the joke. The thing I have learned about this, is to move slowly when working on these older pieces, to avoid becoming an accidental Bubba.