.223 No.4 Revisiting

[browningautorifle]

if they were pitted but passed the barrel gauge test, we'd accept it

I find that interesting, I'd have thought pitting would be a death knell...

[newcastle]

I didn't condemn it because of the pitting, but I thought that it was a better rifle to change up for this project because of the stock and the muzzle condition. I also find it interesting that you wouldn't change a barrel that was pitted, but I have one that is that shoots really well so common sense I suppose. If it will hit minute of German....

[Peter Laidler]

I see the point BAR. But there's pitting and pitting. But if the rifle passes the muzzle gauge tests and the accuracy test then it passes! That is exactly the reason we only use 1 barrel gauge now. The .297 or 301 or whatever, must run freely and pass the standard accuracy pattern test. The days of condemning barrels simply on the say-so of the various gauges are long gone now (except on guns used for OHF for safety reasons) Clearly some deep pitting would be condemned at the 'visual' viewing stage.

Soime sewer pipes shoot like a dream. Others in seemingly new condition, pass all the gauge tests constantly fail to hit the target pattern

[zul]

Hello - new member here who is looking to begin my own Lee Enfield No.4 5.56 conversion project. Little history: I fell in love with the SMLE about 8-9 years ago when I found an Indian wire-wrapped GF No.1 Mk3* that sat neglected on a local sporting-goods store for several months. After the fifth or sixth time catching my eye, I took it home with me. The LE action has been my absolute favorite ever since. About four years ago I also fell in love with the pleasure of shooting 5.56 out of AR-15's and bolt guns. But I could never find a bolt gun that felt "right" in that caliber. That gave me the idea to have a sportized Enfield converted to fire 5.56/.223 so I could have the best of ALL the worlds (milsurp wood/steel beauty, buttery action, modern ammo). The idea stayed just that for several years until I decided to finally start working on it recently. I scored a sportized/beater No.4 MK1/2 (FTR) for a great price (~$200 with shipping/fees) which should be at the LGS within a week.

On to my question: Any updates from the member here (newcastle) who was working on his .223 conversion a few months ago? This thread has already been a great resource and I am saving this information for when I start drawing up exact plans. But any updates on problems/progress would be great to hear.

[Surpmil]

zul, some serious testing has been done of 5.56mm barrels on SMLE actions with a view to replicating the "compensation" (reduced vertical dispersion of bullet strikes at long range) which was well known in the SMLE and No.4 in .303. The advantages you mention have been noticed by others.

[Peter Laidler]

Zul, just a word in your ears. It's called Base Rim Diameter......... It's simplicity itself to convert any centre fire rifle to fire any centre fire cartridge (within the safety parameters of course). The DIFFICULT bit is the rest of the must-haves. The UNLOAD (breech opening) UNLOCK (mechanical safety) EXTRACT, EJECT, COCK, FEED, LOAD and LOCK. Once you take all of those into account and try to fit them into the equation PLUS an action that was designed for a larg diameter base rim dia .303" cartridge, your problems become almost insurmountable.

Even the smaller diameter 7.62mm magazine conversion was a bit hit and miss until it was discovered that........ I won't bore you.......

I suspect that the reason this thread abruptly ceased some considerable time ago is because it's stalled through defeat and waning interest and............ and............ You COULD do it but only if a) you are already a very experienced mech/engineer/fitter-turner with a high degree of same as an Armourer, b) be prepared to spend at least a year and c) spend a LOT of money.

How do I know this............?

[bigduke6]

The link I posted in #8 seems the easiest way....... link below

Collecting and Shooting the Military Surplus Rifle - Surplusrifle.com

[zul]

Zul, just a word in your ears. It's called Base Rim Diameter......... It's simplicity itself to convert any centre fire rifle to fire any centre fire cartridge (within the safety parameters of course). The DIFFICULT bit is the rest of the must-haves. The UNLOAD (breech opening) UNLOCK (mechanical safety) EXTRACT, EJECT, COCK, FEED, LOAD and LOCK. Once you take all of those into account and try to fit them into the equation PLUS an action that was designed for a larg diameter base rim dia .303" cartridge, your problems become almost insurmountable.

Even the smaller diameter 7.62mm magazine conversion was a bit hit and miss until it was discovered that........ I won't bore you.......

I suspect that the reason this thread abruptly ceased some considerable time ago is because it's stalled through defeat and waning interest and............ and............ You COULD do it but only if a) you are already a very experienced mech/engineer/fitter-turner with a high degree of same as an Armourer, b) be prepared to spend at least a year and c) spend a LOT of money.

How do I know this............?

Peter, thanks for the reply. I am planning this as a long-term project - I figured it would take a year minimum to have it complete. Money isn't as big an obstacle as finding a creative and competent gunsmith/machinist (or two) to work with on the project. However I am located in a relatively large metro area that has many resources to sniff out.

Also my background is in 3D modeling and I have a basic understanding of metalwork and gunsmith process so a lot of the work (especially around the magazine) will be prototyped out with 3D printers first.

The bolt head should be easy - mill down the edge, silver solder a ring around it, drill out and fit a plunger ejector then mill out and fit an appropriately sized extractor. The magazine is going to prove to be the most troublesome aspect of the build, I think.

I have finished mock-ups. The completed rifle will have an 18" or 19" barrel and be fitted into a shortened forend. The barrel will be threaded to accept a suppressor. The top handguards and rear barrel band will remain intact but shortened, and the front fitted with a nose cap from an Ishapore 2A1 because I love those old nose caps. The stock will remain unmodified but will have either a molded kydex cheekrest, or a reproduction No.4(T) wooden cheekrest installed. There will be a very low profile scope rail permanently attached over the action in front of the sights to allow the use of a scope or red-dot. The rail will be low and forward enough to allow the use of the original aperture sights. It will look like a "modernized" (but not 'sporterized') military Lee Enfield. It won't be gaudy with plastic or quad rails or other AR-15 junk all over it. It will be classy and will pay homage to the great British rifle it came from.

My rifle arrived last week at the LGS. I have taken it home and looked it over. Bubba really did a number on it. It's dry as a bone but no rust - it came from the American Southwest and it appears to have benefited from living in a dry climate for so many years. A couple small parts on the rifle like the action screws and pins appeared to be fabricated in someone's garage after the originals were thrown away or lost. But I have already ordered replacement parts that should be here soon. I probably won't bother test firing with .303 because the barrel has been cut down in someone's garage and I plan to replace it anyway. I need to find another non-sportized No.4 MK1/2 because these rifles are so amazing!

[zul]

Here is the mock-up I made. I actually made several variations - this is the one I settled on.

[tiriaq]

Some thoughts on the breeching...
There is a gap between the bolt face and breech face of a .303 Lee Enfield. This is the space occupied by the rim of the .303 cartridge.
You do not want or need this gap in a .223 rifle. The bolt head can be lengthened (collar added), or the barrel shank can be lengthened to bring the barrel face back to the bolt face.
If the latter is done, the bolt face can be counterbored for the cartridge head recess. A new extractor would have to be made.
I would drill for the plunger ejector before doing any other bolt face work.
Accuracy International makes a superb single position feed 10 shot .223 magazine. I do not know if it is anywhere close to fitting a Lee Enfield receiver. I will check. If it can be adapted, the single position feed would avoid a lot of trouble achieving reliable feed.