Post War use of MG42/MG3 by West German Army

[BMF]

Great picture,thanks for sharing, this has turned into a really fascinating thread. Did the G3 replace the .30-06 K98 as the standard service rifle in Norway?

Not exactly. The 30-06 K98K's were mainly used by the Homeguard, but also the airforce, navy etc... But not by the army. From around 1950 the army mainly used american arms. The standard rifle for the army was the Garand, until it was replaced by the G3 around 1968. The Homeguard rearmed with G3's from 1969 - 1978. The Homeguard youth organization used the K98K until 1995. Lugers, P38's etc. was in use till the late 80's. Mp40's til early 90's.

Vincent and Sarge: Greetings to you too.

Some pics. on this page. It's from an Airforce NCO school.
Leirlivet i 50 rene - www.lutvatnskolene.com
Leiromrdet - bilder - www.lutvatnskolene.com
Sommervelsen 1967 - www.lutvatnskolene.com

[tankhunter]

Yes, the bnz is the original WWII Manufacturers code for Steyr, Daimler Puch.
All other markings INCLUDING the orig serial number have been removed. Similarly the top cover when you look at it. Has heavy linish marks on it. Indicating the Waffen Amt inspection stamps have also been removed.

I cannot say for sure, but it was common practice postwar. For Israel to do this to Ex Nazi Weapons impressed into their countries Military Arsenals. They did not do this to ALL Ex Whermacht Weapons strangely?....

The serial number on this particular gun has been hand stamped. The original Number would have been impressed by machine, or machine engraved.

[mrclark303]

Not exactly. The 30-06 K98K's were mainly used by the Homeguard, but also the airforce, navy etc... But not by the army. From around 1950 the army mainly used american arms. The standard rifle for the army was the Garand, until it was replaced by the G3 around 1968. The Homeguard rearmed with G3's from 1969 - 1978. The Homeguard youth organization used the K98K until 1995. Lugers, P38's etc. was in use till the late 80's. Mp40's til early 90's.

Vincent and Sarge: Greetings to you too.

Some pics. on this page. It's from an Airforce NCO school.
Leirlivet i 50 rene - www.lutvatnskolene.com
Leiromrdet - bilder - www.lutvatnskolene.com
Sommervelsen 1967 - www.lutvatnskolene.com

Thanks for the pictures, you can safely say Norway got plenty of bang out of Hitlers Reichsmark! I have always admired the professionalism of the Norwegian Armed forces.

A carefully considered equipment plan, like the F16, and very well trained personnel, they would have without doubt given the Russian's a very warm reception had the cold war turned hot.

[Flying10uk]

Thanks for that, tankhunter, which has given me a clue as to another possible post-war user of this particular MG42 which I hadn't thought of. There are several waffenampt markings on this particular deac but not many and not in easy to spot places. Although this MG42 has been well used it is still, in my opinion, in good overall condition and a fascinating collector's piece.

[tankhunter]

No Probs F10, always glad to help where possible.

Another thing I forgot to mention. In Pic 1, approx. just over an inch to the Left of the serial number. Is a small Star Stamp, it is too far away in the photo. To make a clear identification. I am only drawing on my own personal experience of examining many hundereds of Ex Israelie Small Arms I have inspected/worked on in the past. But, their weapons usually have a six pointed star stamp on them. With a sort of crooked 'Y' in the centre. This is the
Shin Bec Arsenal property marking I believe? I have seen it on just about all small arms that have been through my hands. Very common on Ex Whermacht K98k Bolt Action Rifles, .30" Cal Browning MGs, Etc, Etc.

Incidently, a LOT of Ex German K98s were converted 7.62mm Cailber. This calibre was burnt / branded into the side of the Butt area of the wooden stock. The same as converted to 7.62mm .30" Cal MGs were engraved on the left side plates, & also the top of the Breech Bolts. These too, had the small 'Star' stamp on them.

There you go! Another item of Trivia to Forget!

[Flying10uk]

Here are a couple of close up pictures of the markings.

[Peter Laidler]

Luckily, with the body side marks having been linished off, it is a relatively simple job to resurrect them again using chemicals - or whatever these clever forensic folk use. This is the mistake that the car thieves used to make with chassis numbers. So the true number was easy to identify because the striations remain in the structure of the steel.

While we're here, Tankie mentioned the Israeli 6 pointed star with the oddly shaped Y in the centre. Seen it several times. Anyone any idea what it says/means. You there Jonny C?

[boltaction]

Did the MG34 ever get used in the 7.62 role?

Ed

[Warren]

The Norwegians converted a large number to 30-06 and quite successfully.
However, the 7.62 conversion was a problem. They could never get reliable ejections due to the dynamics of the shorter case spinning back into the action.
Several mod's were tried including a "bumper" as used in the original ZB 26 series but the conversion testing was finally dropped.
The MG 34 7.62 conversion will work on a private civilian conversion but not to the reliability spec's required for the military.
The 30-06 conversion was interesting as with the -06" round being longer they forged a grove in the feed tray and ground the receiver to allow for the extra cartridge length.

[Lee Enfield]

The Norwegians converted a large number to 30-06 and quite successfully.
However, the 7.62 conversion was a problem. They could never get reliable ejections due to the dynamics of the shorter case spinning back into the action.
Several mod's were tried including a "bumper" as used in the original ZB 26 series but the conversion testing was finally dropped.
The MG 34 7.62 conversion will work on a private civilian conversion but not to the reliability spec's required for the military.
The 30-06 conversion was interesting as with the -06" round being longer they forged a grove in the feed tray and ground the receiver to allow for the extra cartridge length.

As a matter of interest, my buddy assures me that Sportco 7.62 barrels are THE perfect contour for 7.62mm conversions of MG34's.

I've always suspected that part of the Norge problem was retro modifying .30-06 guns back down to 7.62mm.

They may have had fewer issues with "virgin" 8mm guns...

I read with interest Myrvang's account of the 7.92/.30-06/7.62 mod program
http://www.smallarmsreview.com/displ...darticles=1451