Kerr slings revisited

[rayg]

Well without any actual documentation we can only guess.
I am away from my Brophy book so I can't comment on what it says. Does he say any canvas slings were ever produced according to the 1913 Ordnance request and if so, what did they look like and did that request state Kerr no buckles were to be used and in fact if any were manufactured?.
We may be talking about an entirely different pattern sling and possibly that request was not even acted upon until a few years later unless Brophy has documentation showing it was was in fact a Kerr pattern sling and a date of mfg.
As long as we are guessing, I would think that just before we entered WWI. Ordnance decided to produce a different pattern sling as an alternate to the 1907 pattern sling and using the no-buckle that was available at the time.
Possibly the first ones were made in leather following the norn for leather and later switched to canvas per the 1913 request.
Just because the patent date is 1914 doesn't mean the slings with those buckles were made then. Many items are made years after their patent dates. As you said they were originally made for stirrups not slings. The bottom line is does any one know the actual date the Kerr slings were first produced? Lots of questions remain. Also how do you explain the leather ones?
Out of curiousity, what are the lengths of yours and your buddies? Ray

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[rayg]

Some more curves. I believe the Kerr slings were not a US Ordnance produced sling. In that they were contracted out to the Kerr company like Mills belts and other items were. There are no US Ord. inspectors stamps on any of the Kerr slings that I know of just the Kerr name. Of course not all items have US inspection stamps. However I was told that they were privately produced by the Kerr company and contracted by the government. Now just my thoughts, maybe to meet the demands of war time.
Also I have to believe that the leather ones were originally produced in leather and were not just ordnance repaired slings. I can't see ordnance using leather to replace regulation canvas during any repair of the sling. More questions, Ray

[BrianQ]

I am out of town so anything from Brophy’s book is from memory but I distinctly remember the Kerr sling was adopted based on a 1913 test born from the Ordnance request. There is also verbiage written by a CPT praising the web Kerr sling over the leather M1907 sling. IIRC the test was a year in duration and the passage says the sling that was adopted was manufactured by the Kerr Adjustable Strap Company. One of the problems with web slings designs at the time was having a design that held in place securely but was easily adjustable. The Kerr method solved both problems at once. We can verify the Kerr sling was adopted because it is in the SNL for Rifle B-3 which is the ’03 Springfield.

I would think that just before we entered WWI. Ordnance decided to produce a different pattern sling as an alternate to the 1907 pattern sling and using the no-buckle that was available at the time.
Possibly the first ones were made in leather following the norn for leather and later switched to canvas per the 1913 request.

The 1913 Ordnance requirement was for web slings not leather ones. At the time the Army was switching from leather items to web items so I seriously doubt they would consider a leather sling of a different design when they asked for a web sling. The initial patent application for the buckle less adjusting method is dated September 9, 1913 and the patent was issued on the date appearing on the hardware.

I already mentioned how I explain the leather ones in my previous post. It wouldn’t take much to replace the unserviceable webbing with leather. I have seen numerous M1 Garand type slings that had the webbing replaced with a strip of leather and even M1 carbine slings done the same way. I know the leather on the sling I saw in Texas, San Antonio IIRC, was a replacement. The rivets were completly different. It is also possible the Kerr Adjustable Strap Company made and sold both web and leather slings after the war.

Reference the lengths mine is so stretched out and the leather is hard and won’t lay flat so any measurements taken from it would be unusable.