Winchester P14

[Baldy44]

Bill - You seem very knowledgeable on these, so I'm hitting you up with another question. Is it totally improper to find a P14 in a 1917 stock, or was it one frequently out of necessity. Kinda thinking someone at Camp Perry might complain unless I can show evidence that it was common/proper. A 1917 wont the vintage bolt match just a couple years ago but I think I can get more accuracy out of one of the P14's to be honest. Thanks.

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[browningautorifle]

Is it totally improper to find a P14 in a 1917 stock

If you search a bit here, you'll find threads talking about this very thing. There are minor differences in the rifles and some are more than minor...

[oldfoneguy]

Bill - You seem very knowledgeable on these, so I'm hitting you up with another question. Is it totally improper to find a P14 in a 1917 stock, or was it one frequently out of necessity. Kinda thinking someone at Camp Perry might complain unless I can show evidence that it was common/proper. A 1917 wont the vintage bolt match just a couple years ago but I think I can get more accuracy out of one of the P14's to be honest. Thanks.

Don it is very common to find a P14 in a Model 1917 stock. My own Remington P14 came in a beautiful Eddystone Model 1917 stock. I replaced that with a Remington P14 stock and transferred my sporter 1917 into the Eddystone. There was a British manufacturer whose name escapes me that made M1917 style stocks for P14's during the Weedon refurbs. There were also many 1917 stocks that were shipped to Britain during the first war for use as spares.

Will it be accepted at Camp Perry? Sorry but that is a question I can't truthfully answer as I have no experience in dealing with them. In my limited match experience, the rules seem to be set by the judges on the morning of the match. I'm sure Perry is somewhat different however than the local matches I've been in. I would contact someone there for proper info. - Bill

[Kiwi]

There was a British manufacturer whose name escapes me that made M1917 style stocks for P14's during the Weedon refurbs.

Those WW2 era P14 stocks were stamped No.3 MkII on the right side of the buttstock.

[harry mac]

Don it is very common to find a P14 in a Model 1917 stock. My own Remington P14 came in a beautiful Eddystone Model 1917 stock. I replaced that with a Remington P14 stock and transferred my sporter 1917 into the Eddystone. There was a British manufacturer whose name escapes me that made M1917 style stocks for P14's during the Weedon refurbs. There were also many 1917 stocks that were shipped to Britain during the first war for use as spares.

Will it be accepted at Camp Perry? Sorry but that is a question I can't truthfully answer as I have no experience in dealing with them. In my limited match experience, the rules seem to be set by the judges on the morning of the match. I'm sure Perry is somewhat different however than the local matches I've been in. I would contact someone there for proper info. - Bill

Bill, the British company making the stocks was H. Morris & Co, Glasgow. They were a furniture manufacturer (and still are).
From all I've read the up-grade from Mk1 standard to Mk1* was not a modification undertaken at Weedon, but an up-grade in the rifles' spec incorpoated at the manufacturing stage. The first 100,000 rifles or so from each manufacturer were Mk1's, then the spec was changed and all further production was at Mk1* standard. Major machining work such as milling out the breech faces for the longer bolt lug would have been outside the remit of the refurbishment process.

[oldfoneguy]

Harry, what I've read from a reliable source (Remington Society of America) all P14's made in December 1916 and after were built with the larger bolt lug upgrade. It has been my understanding that the Weedon process was established to upgrade the surviving stock of pre December 1916 built rifles to the Mk I* standard. It is also my understanding that not all of this work was done at Weedon itself but was contracted to several small shops that were capable of this type of work. If you know what to look for and the key to the codes (which I don't know) you can look at a Weedon process rifle and know where the work was done.

Thank you for the name H. Morris & Co. Deep in the gray matter I had some recall that the firm was Scottish but just couldn't draw out the name. Hopefully I may remember this going forward but my hopes for that aren't very high. - Bill

[harry mac]

My understanding of the Weedon process is that it was purely a refurbishment programme. Rifles were repaired or refurbished purely with a view to making defective rifles serviceable again. Any which had gone into storage as Mk1's would merely have been inspected, and repaired as necessary.
I don't know if rebarrelling may have been undertaken as part of this, but it's the only way I can think of that a Mk1 would have come out of Weedon as a Mk1*. But even if that is the case the "upgrade" would have been an accidental result of having the barrel replaced, rather than a conscious effort to up-grade.
The fact that many Mk1*s in civilian hands today have Mk1 bolts fitted, further muddies the waters.

[oldfoneguy]

I believe that any Mk I's in arsenal storage between 1939 & 1940 were upgraded to Mk I* specs. The thought behind the initial upgrade was the round could fall off the bolt face prior to chambering. Any and every service rifle available had to be ready for action which is why I believe the upgrade was done. The majority of rifles seen without an upgrade in original Mk I configuration look like they have never been reworked since originally issued. Rifles that most likely were never returned to store. They either remained in private hands or some far off colony post war.

Please see the pictures of my Remington P14 which has under gone a Weedon process.

The mouth of the barrel at the chamber has been relived to accommodate the larger bolt lug. This was the common process to upgrade the rifles with a replacement bolt. Some bolts were new manufactured but most were used and were always matched to the original maker. My bolt in particular was a used Remington and previously numbered. The old serial was ground off the bottom of the handle and forced matching numbers were added to the top. Other than that the rifle was all matching. The tell tale "daisy" indication of a Weedon process refurb is stamped throughout the rifle including the chamber, bolt handle, extractor and stock. - Bill