M1903 / A1 Sniper Rifle Scope Mounts

[cplstevennorton]

Yeah as Herschel said, they are just O and E Unertl blocks. On the real rifles you see two different rear sight bases. Both appear to be made by Unertl as both are marked as such. But one has the WRA hole on both sides of the block for the thumb screw, like on the A5. It also has more square ends of the block. The other has more rounded ends and only has the WRA hole on the left side of the block. The more round with one hole is more common, but both are found on real rifles. I believe the more square might be earlier as it has holes on both sides, and that was an outdated style even in WWII. So I think the one hole was a revision, maybe wartime production. But I can't find any documentation on them. They are spaced 7.2 inches center to center of the blocks. Which yields 1/4 adjustments for each click on the 8X USMC Unertl 1 1/4 target scope.

But here are two side by side. So you can sort of get a look of them. These are the two variations the Marines used in Sniper Conversion. Both are NM rifles. But the top still maintains it's orignal Star Gauged barrel. The bottom is a NM that the barrel was replaced by the Marines with a standard barrel. The Marines did not buy star gauged barrels from SA to rebarrel the NM rifles. The Marines called these Rebarreled NM rifles, special targets. Both types of rifles were converted to snipers in WWII by the Marines.

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[usabaker]

They are spaced 7.2 inches center to center of the blocks. Which yields 1/4 adjustments for each click on the 8X USMC Unertl 1 1/4 target scope.

But the top still maintains it's original Star Gauged barrel.

cplstevennorton, This is fascinating! The scope is so long I was wondering how the geometry worked, the center to center you provided really helps me visualize this now. From looking at the pictures it looks as though the mounting block is not level with the rear mounting block, that the front mount is parallel to the barrel taper; our id this just because of the angle of the picture?

I'm still quite ignorant when it comes to the 1903, which of course is the reason I'm so curious. Good books on these things are so freeking expensive, so my 'vast knowledge' ;P has been limited to what I have learned from everyone here on the forum and the military manuals. I'm guessing when you write NM that means National Match (unlikely Narlly Marine)

When you say "original Star Gauged barrel" is that the little star on the crown? I've always wondered why that was there if it is.

Looking at your rifles is making me wish I had one, but like my father would say, "Wish in one hand and crap in the other and see which one gets full first", maybe someday., and if I do look for one the information you have given me will help me 'better' sort through all the fakes. Just with the little, I know from this exchange I can see I might have been taken for a sucker.

Thank you for taking the time to educate me on these rifles, your rifles are gorgeous.

Bill

[cplstevennorton]

cplstevennorton, This is fascinating! The scope is so long I was wondering how the geometry worked, the center to center you provided really helps me visualize this now. From looking at the pictures it looks as though the mounting block is not level with the rear mounting block, that the front mount is parallel to the barrel taper; our id this just because of the angle of the picture?

I'm not 100% sure what you mean, but the blocks are level on top of the barreled receiver. I'm guessing what you see is an illusion, just from being taken with a cell phone camera and just downloading and cropping the pic, and resizing it to fit here.

I'm still quite ignorant when it comes to the 1903, which of course is the reason I'm so curious. Good books on these things are so freeking expensive, so my 'vast knowledge' ;P has been limited to what I have learned from everyone here on the forum and the military manuals. I'm guessing when you write NM that means National Match (unlikely Narlly Marine)

Yes Sir, National Match.

When you say "original Star Gauged barrel" is that the little star on the crown? I've always wondered why that was there if it is.

YEah they had the star mark at the muzzle, and under the handguard, the star record number. Which is usually a letter followed by a 3 or 4 digit number. It just meant that SA used a special tool to make sure to check the barrel. Basically a quality control to make sure it was a good barrel for accuracy.


Looking at your rifles is making me wish I had one, but like my father would say, "Wish in one hand and crap in the other and see which one gets full first", maybe someday., and if I do look for one the information you have given me will help me 'better' sort through all the fakes. Just with the little, I know from this exchange I can see I might have been taken for a sucker.

Yeah you have to be extremely careful on these. I keep track of all known real rifles, and I know of around 20 now. And usually if one surfaces I hear it about it from someone. They are pretty rare and command huge premiums when they do sell.

Thank you for taking the time to educate me on these rifles, your rifles are gorgeous.

Bill

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