1903 rebuild

[Col. Colt]

Smokeaterpilot - that is a GREAT SRS hit - and if you read Lt. Col. Jeff Cooper's book "Another Country" (ANYTHING written by Jeff Cooper, now sadly departed, is worth your time) you will read about how many US High Schools in the 1930's had their own ROTC program, complete with uniforms, an armory and RIFLES. In the morning at the start of the school day in California he told about how the Honor Guard at his high school were uniformed ROTC high school students, with bugler and officer and performed the Flag Raising Ceremony in formation every morning for the school.

I think such a program would fix a lot of what is wrong with our schools today..... CC

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[Smokeeaterpilot]

Smokeaterpilot - that is a GREAT SRS hit - and if you read Lt. Col. Jeff Cooper's book "Another Country" (ANYTHING written by Jeff Cooper, now sadly departed, is worth your time) you will read about how many US High Schools in the 1930's had their own ROTC program, complete with uniforms, an armory and RIFLES. In the morning at the start of the school day in California he told about how the Honor Guard at his high school were uniformed ROTC high school students, with bugler and officer and performed the Flag Raising Ceremony in formation every morning for the school.

I think such a program would fix a lot of what is wrong with our schools today..... CC

CC,

If I recall the last time I saw the paperwork. These were the Washington DC schools that were segregated and the paperwork uses terms not considered "PC" by today's standards

Respectfully
Andrew

[Col. Colt]

Andrew, in 1936 EVERYTHING in much of the World was segregated - not just high schools......and I don't think the ROTC - or their rifles - was to blame for that. I am pretty sure those same high schools today use different language, too. But I don't think politics and ancient wrongs is the the proper direction for this thread to take.

Imagine, for a moment, a time in our parents time when our beloved rifles were Part of everyday life - even in high school. Here in Alaska we still have high schools with rifle ranges - but then we are not very PC, either.

As Cooper said "The Past is Another Country, they do things differently there."

History is not always pretty, but the triumph of right over wrong is an ongoing process - there are and were decent people in every age and at all times in history - or we would never have made any progress. Our system has flaws, but slavery was abolished here - and paid for with 600,000 lives - not so in Africa and elsewhere in the world, even today. Man is a failed creature, but for his cultivated moral sense - which seems to be in decline lately. But hope springs eternal, and God is not mocked. Virtue is eventually rewarded - and evil doers will get theirs, in life or in the end.

My point was - and is - that this rifle is tremendously interesting for being ISSUED TO A US HIGH SCHOOL - by the US government. And the students and staff of that time were trustworthy enough to do that. Respectfully, CC

[Smokeeaterpilot]

Andrew, in 1936 EVERYTHING in much of the World was segregated - not just high schools......and I don't think the ROTC - or their rifles - was to blame for that. I am pretty sure those same high schools today use different language, too. But I don't think politics and ancient wrongs is the the proper direction for this thread to take.

Imagine, for a moment, a time in our parents time when our beloved rifles were Part of everyday life - even in high school. Here in Alaska we still have high schools with rifle ranges - but then we are not very PC, either.

As Cooper said "The Past is Another Country, they do things differently there."

History is not always pretty, but the triumph of right over wrong is an ongoing process - there are and were decent people in every age and at all times in history - or we would never have made any progress. Our system has flaws, but slavery was abolished here - and paid for with 600,000 lives - not so in Africa and elsewhere in the world, even today. Man is a failed creature, but for his cultivated moral sense - which seems to be in decline lately. But hope springs eternal, and God is not mocked. Virtue is eventually rewarded - and evil doers will get theirs, in life or in the end.

My point was - and is - that this rifle is tremendously interesting for being ISSUED TO A US HIGH SCHOOL - by the US government. And the students and staff of that time were trustworthy enough to do that. Respectfully, CC

CC,

My apologies, sometimes with written responses versus verbal/In-Person, a lot can easily be taken out of context as the majority of communication is non-verbal.

That being said, my response had nothing to do with pointing at anything about the segregation or the role of rifles in ROTC. And I don't disagree with your points but I think mine may have not been typed correctly.

I was merely expanding on the citation, that the actual paperwork denotes the inventory of arms for African American Washington DC schools and that the title of the paperwork used (although common for the time) is not considered "PC" today, is probably why Frank Mallory omitted that portion when he published his SRS list containing these numbers.

Just pointing out that the actual paperwork typically has interesting details that may be omitted from the citation.

If that makes sense.

[Col. Colt]

It makes perfect sense - and it's a crying shame that we cannot (any longer) just accept the unvarnished truth of the past, accept the lessons from it - and drive on. Whitewashing the past and forgetting the lessons only lets you repeat the same mistakes.

I apologize if I came off harsh, but I myself have been thumped for bringing politics into what was really just a gun thread (on another forum) and, it was properly pointed out to me - if not very carefully handled, it can cause offense and a rift in the ranks of those whose interests on the Forum are very similar.

I saw a "Mime" photo of the two principle characters in a scene from the 1970's movie "Blazing Saddles" - with a caption to the effect (I'm not good at paraphrasing) - "Wasn't it great to live in a time when we could make fun of bigotry and human faults and (all of us) laugh at each other." Mel Brooks nailed Everybody in that film - and we all laughed.



Back on the great topic of Weekend Warrior's cool Rock Island '03 - it might be interesting to find as many listings of those "Public School Issued" M1903 (and other) Rifles and note were and how many were issued. Cooper implied that his large high school had a large ROTC unit in Pre-war LA - and trained in drill, marching, etc, in uniform and with REAL Rifles. Modern teachers would faint!

Now, about this particular M1903 - it most certainly would have had an "S" Stock, and be "RI" marked like is pictured - but it needs the proper cartouche if you are restoring it to original. I am at work up north and don't have my books, but I have a Rock Island and you need to look up what inspector's cartouche would have been in use at that time to get the correct stock. If you really want to dig into the M1903, go ahead and get the books now - sometimes cheap(er) used and easy off Ebay. I personallly use Brophy's Springfield book, Poyer and even (carefully) Harrison's comb bound 1903 book - some mistakes but truly excellent drawings of each part. Study carefully, very little is hard and fast and not subject to change with new information - not everyone agrees on dates and details, so you just have to talk to the experts (some here) and draw your own conclusions and purchase parts accordingly.

Now, if you want to Shoot your Springfield, the very best books available are from E.C. Crossman written in the 1920's/30's when the Springfield was our nation's official rifle - "The Book of the Springfield" and "Military and Sporting Rifle Shooting". Crossman was an officer in US Army Ordnance, did a lot of ballistic testing and you will know more about using a Springfield from him than any more modern source. His books (originals) and NRA leather bound reprints are available on Ebay. CC