L42/Enforcer Ammunication

[Enfield Enforcer]

Hello altogether,

many thanks - such a great engagement in this short time ! :-)

Really surprising. So many posts and so many members - and several prominent members, too. Amazing :-) An special thanks to Frederick303 and Bruce in Oz !

First of all, I intend not to shoot at 1000 yards. Because this scope is not suited for such an great distance. It allows an height adjustment for 700-800 Meters in maximum. And, of course, the Enforcer is not a military sniper rifle. It's an Police Sniper Rifle with an intended operational range of 100-200 meters resp. yards, maximum. It seems, that shots over 100 yards have been avoided. The cartridge and his long barrel, too, on the other hand should allow shots until circa 700-800 meters.
Today I know that some bullet diameters and types of powder charge are not suitable for this rifle. And of course, I intend to enjoy and keep it as long as possible. It is since 27 years part of my Enfield-Collection.

I'm glad that I didn't try some of my M118 National Match ammo.

This questions so far: this MEN ammo, what bullet weight and production code has it, please ? Here in Switzerland we have a trader with amazing good relations to military ammo, since several years. MEN Surplus .303 British, for example and MEN .308 Win. 190 grs Match and other seldom ammo. But not RG- and only a few 7,62 mm-NATO-Ammo by which I don't have any experience or near info.

First I used mainly the known Lapua Match 185 grs D46 - without knowing what I know now - it worked well so far. No visible troubles. Until one day an really old case was touched. Has anyone experience with this ammo ?

What about the Norma 190 grs Match, please ? I bought it after this Lapua case touching but didn't use it til now.

Im glad about any informations to this ammo types.

Regards from Switzerland
Enfield Enforcer

GGG is also brilliant STANAG spec ammo, available in 5.56 and 7.62

GGG 7.62x51mm 147Gr FMJ (100Rds) | ammo-zone

Information

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[harry mac]

Here in Switzerland we have a trader with amazing good relations to military ammo, since several years. MEN Surplus .303 British, for example and MEN .308 Win. 190 grs Match and other seldom ammo. But not RG- and only a few 7,62 mm-NATO-Ammo by which I don't have any experience or near info.
Regards from Switzerland
Enfield Enforcer

I'm not the best shot in the world, by any stretch of the imagination, but using the MEN 7.62 I can easily group inside the 9 ring at 100m on a 50m pistol target. I just wish someone would get some of that MEN .303 and bring it into The UK.

[Enfield Enforcer]

Hello, there was a mistake in translating my las post... Pardon me.

This rare Federal Match Ammo is suddenly available in Switzerland. And this price is amazing low ... Is there any experience - accuracy - function - with this ammo for a Lee-Enfield L 42 A1 or Enforcer or L 39 A1?

Please :-)

Many thanks !

Best greetings
Enfield Enforcer

[Alan de Enfield]

Hello, there was a mistake in translating my las post... Pardon me.

This rare Federal Match Ammo is suddenly available in Switzerland. And this price is amazing low ... Is there any experience - accuracy - function - with this ammo for a Lee-Enfield L 42 A1 or Enforcer or L 39 A1?

Please :-)

Many thanks !

Best greetings
Enfield Enforcer

Remember that the chambers in military 7.62 calibre are VERY different to 308 (for example there is 0.013" difference in headspace)

7.62 can be safely used in a 308 but you should not use 308 in a 7.62.

Denken Sie daran, dass sich die Kammern im militärischen Kaliber 7.62 SEHR von 308 unterscheiden (zum Beispiel gibt es einen Unterschied von 0,013 Zoll im Kopfraum).
7.62 kann sicher in einem 308 verwendet werden, aber Sie sollten 308 nicht in einem 7.62 verwenden.

[Enfield Enforcer]

Hello

Thanks for the quick Answers, especially to Alan de Enfield for this picture.

It seems still to be a bit ambiguos to me. And complex.

Because some us the 7,62 mm NATO-Ammo, but also some .308 Win. stuff.
I have to come back to that a bit later...

Have a nice evening, all of you.

Best regards
Enfield Enforcer

[GeeRam]

It seems still to be a bit ambiguos to me. And complex.

Es ist sehr einfach, verwenden sie keine .308-Munition in Lee Enfield 7.62x51.
Verwenden sie nur 7,62 x 51 NATO-Munition.

[Lee Enfield]

Remember that the chambers in military 7.62 calibre are VERY different to 308 (for example there is 0.013" difference in headspace)

7.62 can be safely used in a 308 but you should not use 308 in a 7.62.

Denken Sie daran, dass sich die Kammern im militärischen Kaliber 7.62 SEHR von 308 unterscheiden (zum Beispiel gibt es einen Unterschied von 0,013 Zoll im Kopfraum).
7.62 kann sicher in einem 308 verwendet werden, aber Sie sollten 308 nicht in einem 7.62 verwenden.

This illustration was unfortunately created by someone who doesn't understand that the pressure levels quoted are in 2 different systems of measure.

Enforcers/L42s ect are not MAG58s - sniping and target rifles are not headspaced at the high end of the chamber spectrum - what would the point be of a sniping or target rifle with excess headspace or an extra long throat?

.303 British and .308Win nominally have the same H2O case capacity (56grains of water).

.303 British 174gr MkVIIz was loaded to 2440+/-40fps
.303 British 175gr MkVIIIz was loaded to 2550+/-40 fps

MkVIII was cleared for use in rifles

Federal GM Match 175gr is loaded to a nominal 2600fps which is at the high end of the MkVIIIz velocity window.

There is no "free lunch" - 2 projectiles of the same weight loaded to the same velocity in the same case capacity are not magically dramatically higher in pressure.

I know a number of people who are running Federal GMM 168gr in their L42s and Enforcers.

personally I am running 165gr Hornady interlocks over 42gr of IMR4895... safe in my rifle ect ect.

[Alan de Enfield]

.303 British and .308Win nominally have the same H2O case capacity (56grains of water).

.303 British 174gr MkVIIz was loaded to 2440+/-40fps
.303 British 175gr MkVIIIz was loaded to 2550+/-40 fps

MkVIII was cleared for use in rifles

I wonder if you could explain why the 303 has come into the equation ?

We are comparing 7.62 and 308, and the 7.62 cases, which are externally dimensionally the same as 308, are heavier, therefore the walls must be thicker and the volume is less. Try measuring the volume of water held by bth cases. I think you will find a difference.[COLOR="black"]

---------- Post added at 09:26 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:20 AM ----------

Lee Enfield please explain to me why then No4s converted to use the NATO 7.62 144gn rounds had to be reproofed for civvie range use. The failure rate was not small.
Yes Mk8 was cleared for rifle use in an emergency only. I would not say that 2600 FPS was a moderate pressure increase over 2440 fps pressure.
I am also aware the 308 case will not show pressure signs like the 303 case does in the same actions.
I have seen a range rifle front locker bolt failure in a rifle built for 144gn NATO using moderate 175gn loads. The No4/L42 is not a heavy 308 it is a light weight 308 stop gap rear locker outfit.

Not only did it have to be re-prooved to the 19 tonnes, but the NRA stipulated that if using the 'later' (heavier 175gr bullet) it had to be re-prooved again to 21 tonnes.

The NRA had banned the use of 7.62 No4s but following an 'uprorar' amended their policy as follows :



NRA Safety Notice re No 4 7.62mm Conversions
This is the current stance of the NRA safety warning which first appeared in the Summer NRA Journal:
Safety Notice
Enfield No 4 Rifle Conversions to 7.62mm

A safety warning concerning the use of Enfield No 4 Rifle actions converted to 7.62mm was published in the Summer 2010 Journal.

After further consideration of all factors influencing safety of these conversions and consultation with the Birmingham Proof Master, the following advice must be adhered to in respect of the use of Enfield No 4 conversions:

• Owners of Enfield No 4 actioned rifles converted to 7.62mm currently proofed to 19 tons per square inch are strongly advised to have them re-proofed to the current CIP standard (requiring a minimum mean proof pressure of 5190 bar) which allows the use of CIP approved ammunition with a Maximum Average Working Pressure (MAWP) of 4150 Bar.