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Thread: Lee enfield No.4 Mk I with Mk3 sight

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    Roger Payne's Avatar
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    I am not absolutely certain, but I am pretty certain that the fabricated rear sights were designed, produced, & fitted during WW2. They were a cheaper & not so nice alternative to the Mk1 'Singer' sight, but a rather better proposition than the crude Mk2 'battle' sight. I daresay that all the information is quoted chapter & verse in the LES.

    If the rifle is really unadulterated & not FTR'ed & it bears a rear sight marked up to BSA then there is a good chance that it is a rifle produced by BSA at their Shirley factory near Birmingham, UK. The regional factory codes were applied to parts for some years after the end of the war by some manufacturers, BSA included. I've seen woodwork marked M47/C & dated in the mid-1950's. The secret factory codes were allocated sequentially, & began with either a 'S', a 'M' or a 'N', for Southern area (Southern part of Englandicon), the Midlands (which allso included Wales IIRC), or the North of England & Scotland. So, BSA, being based in the Birmingham area of the Midlands of England, was given a 'M' prefix, & just happened to be manufacturer number 47 in the Midlands area. The addition of the 'A', 'B', 'C', or 'D' simply indicated which of the four BSA facilities made the weapon/component. When the codes were adopted by BSA in 1943, at least initially, the last letter was not applied, so seeing rifles & components just marked 'M47' is quite common.

    Hope this helps a little.

    As ever, if the OP can get us a few photo's of the rifle in question he will no doubt get plenty of helpful advice - unless the rifle body has been linished, the manufacturer's name or code is likely to be on it somewhere, along with the year of manufacture.
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    Legacy Member MilsurpMM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Payneicon View Post
    I am not absolutely certain, but I am pretty certain that the fabricated rear sights were designed, produced, & fitted during WW2. They were a cheaper & not so nice alternative to the Mk1 'Singer' sight, but a rather better proposition than the crude Mk2 'battle' sight. I daresay that all the information is quoted chapter & verse in the LES.

    If the rifle is really unadulterated & not FTR'ed & it bears a rear sight marked up to BSA then there is a good chance that it is a rifle produced by BSA at their Shirley factory near Birmingham, UK. The regional factory codes were applied to parts for some years after the end of the war by some manufacturers, BSA included. I've seen woodwork marked M47/C & dated in the mid-1950's. The secret factory codes were allocated sequentially, & began with either a 'S', a 'M' or a 'N', for Southern area (Southern part of Englandicon), the Midlands (which allso included Wales IIRC), or the North of England & Scotland. So, BSA, being based in the Birmingham area of the Midlands of England, was given a 'M' prefix, & just happened to be manufacturer number 47 in the Midlands area. The addition of the 'A', 'B', 'C', or 'D' simply indicated which of the four BSA facilities made the weapon/component. When the codes were adopted by BSA in 1943, at least initially, the last letter was not applied, so seeing rifles & components just marked 'M47' is quite common.

    Hope this helps a little.

    As ever, if the OP can get us a few photo's of the rifle in question he will no doubt get plenty of helpful advice - unless the rifle body has been linished, the manufacturer's name or code is likely to be on it somewhere, along with the year of manufacture.
    Very cool. Thank you very much for all the info!

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    Legacy Member Stanforth's Avatar
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    In a few years time, when I have shuffled off this mortal coil some one will be on here questioning my Savage No.4 MK1* with jungle carbine sight fitted.

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    Legacy Member Alan de Enfield's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanforth View Post
    In a few years time, when I have shuffled off this mortal coil some one will be on here questioning my Savage No.4 MK1* with jungle carbine sight fitted.
    Ditto on my Savage No4 Mk1*

    The No 5 sight on a No4 gives 0.5 MOA, whilst a No4 sight on a No4 gives 1.0 MOA

    From an old thread by Parashooter :


    Parashooter – No4 Vs No5 Rear sight Threads

    At least on these two examples (original sights), there appears to be a difference in screw diameter and pitch. Given the slightly coarser thread on the 800-yard sight, the "click value" would be some 10% greater than the 1300-yard sight if both were mounted on rifles with the same sight radius - except for the fact that the 1300-yard elevation screw is double-threaded, giving it an effective pitch approximately double that of the single-thread 800-yard screw.

    On measuring the two sights shown, each click of the No.4's sight moves the slide .008" - vs. .0043" on the No.5's sight. Consequently, the 1300-yard sight gives very close to 1.0 MOA per click with the No.4 rifle's 28" sight radius while the 800-yard sight has a click value of ~0.66 MOA with the No.5's 23" sight radius and would yield ~0.55 MOA on a No.4 rifle. (Pretty much what Maxwell Smart reports in post #17 on this thread.)
    Mine are not the best, but they are not too bad. I can think of lots of Enfields I'd rather have but instead of constantly striving for more, sometimes it's good to be satisfied with what one has...

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