drill receivers unsafe to build?

[lovemymilsurps]

just did the research on these, the action is from old drill rifles that old western scounger bought and revived them and claim they are safe to use and sog claims them to be safe to use also

[Kirk]

A recovered DR receiver likely will not blow up - it will stretch. I converted two Remington A3 DRs at the same time. Both had minimal welds - about .125" wide by .6" long & no discoloration to the metal. Both old barrels came off easily & the reciver faces dressed up fine. Both got new barrels, bolts, cut offs & other parts. Both barrels screwed on & tightened up just fine, like on a ordinary (non DR) receiver. During assembly, everything was completely normal. Both headspaced perfectly. After 200 rounds, I checked headspace again. One was fine but the bolt on the second closed on a No Go gauge. Thinking I'd made a mistake, I swapped bolts & found one that would headspace OK. 20 Rounds later, that bolt also closed on a No Go gauge. Off came the barrel & the receiver now makes a nice paper weight! I'd say don't chance it. Who knows where it will be in 50 years & whose grandson may fire it.

[TKacook]

Kirk,
"Who knows where it will be in 50 years & whose grandson may fire it."

Your final sentence are words of wisdom. I thought about building one of these, but it might be my son or his children that end up with it. Not worth it in my book.

TKacook

[Harlan (Deceased)]

I know you're a shooter as I have always been.

Why not save just a little while and buy a complete 1903. They don't cost much.

I saw the photos of what happened to your face and you were very lucky.

[gaw2]

Wish someone made an affordable .22 conversion kit.

[Jim Tarleton]

I know you're a shooter as I have always been.

Why not save just a little while and buy a complete 1903. They don't cost much.

I saw the photos of what happened to your face and you were very lucky.

I agree.

Jim

[Chuckindenver]

though i agree, a unDP 03 or A3 is what a guy wants.
and some DP rifles should not be restored.
however, id doubt that a A3 stretched, more likely its a bolt issue, and or barrel issue.
the locking ways on the receiver may have been worn, long before the rifle was made into a DP rifle, setback is a common issue with 1903,s that saw a lot of use{firing} and manual of arms.
the fact they havnt been shot in some 45 years, only played with, should say something.
but, most of the DP A3,s iv delt with were as new if not new, when converted to DP.
i purchsed some 75 A3 DP rifles the first go around, and all but 5 were ok, the 5 that wernt restorable, were welded heavy, or damaged, from rough use.
most were as new, no rebuild marks, nice FJA marked stocks ect, early barrels, and blue parts, a couple just had epoxy in the bore, and cuttoff, and no welds, they came back easy.
i have 3 family members that have A3,s that i built and gave them as gifts,
my dad shoots the one i did for him monthly, and loves it, just came over last week and showed me a target that he killed with it, and the nice 1/2 group i shot.
as hard as the A3 is and being nickle steel, id say to stretch one would be tough. but not out of the question.
just closing on a gauge, isnt death of a receiver, whats the fired case look like?
found many 03,s A3,s and mosly 17,s that closed on a NG gauge, and the brass looked great,
without getting off into headspace land, and the long drawn out discussion that usually goes with it.
a fired case will tell more then any gauge.
but, in any case, a rifle you dont trust, should never be used, and cut up as scrap.
try 3 brands of no go and or field gauges, they all measure differently.
i use a GI issue gauge..and dont carry a gauge in your pocket at the gunshows,
imagine the wear it gets with your jackknife, change and car keys.
they should be stored in a case, seperate from any othet tools, or so they dont rub or wear against other objects.
ever see the guy selling a basket of gauges at the show? how many years have those been in that basket? think those are accurate???
but like any salvaged rifle, caution should be used, as well as safety glasses, and gloves, when firing.
tire testfire should also be done, from a safe distance..

[lovemymilsurps]

though i agree, a unDP 03 or A3 is what a guy wants.
and some DP rifles should not be restored.
however, id doubt that a A3 stretched, more likely its a bolt issue, and or barrel issue.
the locking ways on the receiver may have been worn, long before the rifle was made into a DP rifle, setback is a common issue with 1903,s that saw a lot of use{firing} and manual of arms.
the fact they havnt been shot in some 45 years, only played with, should say something.
but, most of the DP A3,s iv delt with were as new if not new, when converted to DP.
i purchsed some 75 A3 DP rifles the first go around, and all but 5 were ok, the 5 that wernt restorable, were welded heavy, or damaged, from rough use.
most were as new, no rebuild marks, nice FJA marked stocks ect, early barrels, and blue parts, a couple just had epoxy in the bore, and cuttoff, and no welds, they came back easy.
i have 3 family members that have A3,s that i built and gave them as gifts,
my dad shoots the one i did for him monthly, and loves it, just came over last week and showed me a target that he killed with it, and the nice 1/2 group i shot.
as hard as the A3 is and being nickle steel, id say to stretch one would be tough. but not out of the question.
just closing on a gauge, isnt death of a receiver, whats the fired case look like?
found many 03,s A3,s and mosly 17,s that closed on a NG gauge, and the brass looked great,
without getting off into headspace land, and the long drawn out discussion that usually goes with it.
a fired case will tell more then any gauge.
but, in any case, a rifle you dont trust, should never be used, and cut up as scrap.
try 3 brands of no go and or field gauges, they all measure differently.
i use a GI issue gauge..and dont carry a gauge in your pocket at the gunshows,
imagine the wear it gets with your jackknife, change and car keys.
they should be stored in a case, seperate from any othet tools, or so they dont rub or wear against other objects.
ever see the guy selling a basket of gauges at the show? how many years have those been in that basket? think those are accurate???
but like any salvaged rifle, caution should be used, as well as safety glasses, and gloves, when firing.
tire testfire should also be done, from a safe distance..

hey chuck, you have any good un-violated a3 receivers i can buy from you? i got $500 worth of new gi parts that i really don't want just laying around

[mhb]

Are both a potential for scam, and a safety hazard, no matter what else is said. The rifles were rendered inoperable by means of welding without any thought that they might ever be restored - and they were sold on that same understanding, with caveat that they were NOT to be restored. I think we've all seen these offered for sale as original items without any indication of what they really are - Caveat Emptor, indeed!
Welding does affect the temper. of course, but the worst thing is the location of the weld at the front of the receiver ring - it not only impacts the heattreatment, but damages the metallurgical integrity of the receiver. I've seen cracked receivers in 1917s, 1903s of all types and vintages and 1903A3s - and the most commom location for the beginning of the crack is the draw mark on the front of the receiver, which forms a stress riser and is therefore the most likely place for failure to begin. How much more likely that a receiver which has been welded at the front end will crack is anybody's guess - and no one can say that it won't.
And, even those who restore such rifles 'strictly for personal use' are fooling only themselves - none of us lasts forever, and we have no control at all over what happens after we are gone. Subsequent owners are unlikely to know or care what our original intent was, so the risk we might be willing to take knowingly becomes one the new owner won't likely know anything about.
Does this seem ethical to you?
mhb - Mike

[DRB]

Being I Mechanical Enginneer, but not a metalurgist, I have had enough education on metalurgy to never trust a drill rifle. The heating during welding and cutting was uncontrolled and the cooling was uncontrolled. There is no way to say with certainty that they are safe. If one started growing headspace as it was fired I would suspect the locking surfaces got soft not that the receiver is stretching. This is the same issue that the National Ordnance receivers seem to have. Such a receiver is dangerous as excess headspace will lead to head seperations. The O3 drill rifles were welded on a lot what with the cuttoff and the barrel being welded then the barrel had a plug stuck in it and was torch cut on the bottom. I just do not think it is worth it since unmessed with 03s are not really that expensive and are much more likely to be safe. Now as to shortening an action I would say any good gunsmith who does that takes lots of precations that the locking surfaces do not get hot. On a drill rifle I bet a lot of nice red hot or hotter receivers rings did occur. Numrich used to make a .22 conversion kit for the 03. If you could find one of those I think you woudl be just fine shooting as many .22s as you wanted in a reactivaed drill rifle. Also let me say that if I were a gunsmith which I am not, I would not restore a rifle for a customer knowing that it was sold as unsafe. Only takes one blow up to put you out of buisness. I have some of the CMP MA unplugged drill rifles as well and would not consider firing them either though they have had a lot less welding done on them. My expectation on them is that with repeated use the receiver ring will crack at the weld. I do not think they got hot enough to ruin the heat treat on the lug seats but I am not sure some may have. The 03 and 03A3 receivers will probably eventually crack at the weld point on the receiver as well. So use at your own risk. FWIW I have sold nice unmessed with 03A3 receivers as recently as this year for $110. I have gotten more for them as well but they are around if you look.