I don't like plastic pistols

[Eaglelord17]

Honestly as much as I prefer steel guns myself (don't own a single plastic pistol, closest I have gotten to that is stamped metal a la Swiss P75), the modern polymer guns are lighter, more reliable, and honestly more durable. They require less maintenance overall, and long term they are here to stay. Simply put from most metrics they are better than steel guns, and the other metrics can be made just as good. Still doesn't make me want to own one.

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[pocketshaver]

Honestly as much as I prefer steel guns myself (don't own a single plastic pistol, closest I have gotten to that is stamped metal a la Swiss P75), the modern polymer guns are lighter, more reliable, and honestly more durable. They require less maintenance overall, and long term they are here to stay. Simply put from most metrics they are better than steel guns, and the other metrics can be made just as good. Still doesn't make me want to own one.

MOST manufacturers of polymer guns have been using sheet steel stampings to reinforce the plastic grip frame to have DURABILTY. AND almost all of them have had to resort to at minimum, reinforcing critical recoil areas with metal plates and metal pins to keep the guns working.

---------- Post added at 11:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:55 PM ----------

Exactly.

Just as you'd rather take a M4 Carbine or AUG etc into a modern combat scenario, rather than a Lee-Enfield or Garand etc.

Where do you get your idea on that a M4 or AUG, or any other 5.56 based gun is better then a SMLE or garand, or ANY battle rifle predating the 5.56?

IM sorry but I have known FAR to many veterans FIRST HAND that admit they would rather have a beretta then anything chambered in 5.56. EVERY first hand veteran I personally know after they get out have a massive disgust of that cartridge and associated weapons. And when we DO buy "the first gun back home" its also always chambered in a genuine battle rifle cartridge.308 family, etc.

[usabaker]

IM sorry but I have known FAR to many veterans FIRST HAND that admit they would rather have a beretta then anything chambered in 5.56. EVERY first hand veteran I personally know after they get out have a massive disgust of that cartridge and associated weapons. And when we DO buy "the first gun back home" its also always chambered in a genuine battle rifle cartridge.308 family, etc.

Bingo! I have never had the desire to own an M4 or any kind of AR type rifle. My friends always ask me if I have one or why I don't have one. My answer is always the same. I carried a 16' when I was active, why the heck would I want one as a civilian? Now my PIG, that's a whole other thing; only wish I could have one of them.

But let be real here, for most of us on this forum Police and Military work has past so we don't choose a handgun, for the most part, as a workhorse tool. So choosing a pistol now is not based on those parameters. We would not be on this forum if we were not in love with steel and wood.

[GeeRam]

MOST manufacturers of polymer guns have been using sheet steel stampings to reinforce the plastic grip frame to have DURABILTY. AND almost all of them have had to resort to at minimum, reinforcing critical recoil areas with metal plates and metal pins to keep the guns working.

---------- Post added at 11:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:55 PM ----------



Where do you get your idea on that a M4 or AUG, or any other 5.56 based gun is better then a SMLE or garand, or ANY battle rifle predating the 5.56?

IM sorry but I have known FAR to many veterans FIRST HAND that admit they would rather have a beretta then anything chambered in 5.56. EVERY first hand veteran I personally know after they get out have a massive disgust of that cartridge and associated weapons. And when we DO buy "the first gun back home" its also always chambered in a genuine battle rifle cartridge.308 family, etc.

I don't, 5.56 is crap, it was the generic rifle type/design rather than the specific calibre choice that I was talking about when I mentioned the Lee and Garand.

'The West' should have just adopted the 7.92x33 in 1945 for production of an updated MP44...... but politics always gets in the way of sensible practical decisions, but that wouldn't have met US approval just as the .280 British didn't....and yet 10 years later the USA enforce the 5.56 on everyone after saying the .280 isn't man enough and we need the 7.62x51.....which then got dropped.

75 years later we're still no better off, while 'the other side' have been using 7.62x39 for that length of time.

[GunnyUSMC]

MOST manufacturers of polymer guns have been using sheet steel stampings to reinforce the plastic grip frame to have DURABILTY. AND almost all of them have had to resort to at minimum, reinforcing critical recoil areas with metal plates and metal pins to keep the guns working.

---------- Post added at 11:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:55 PM ----------

From your post it is clear that you really don’t know a lot about polymer frame pistols.

Where do you get your idea on that a M4 or AUG, or any other 5.56 based gun is better then a SMLE or garand, or ANY battle rifle predating the 5.56?

IM sorry but I have known FAR to many veterans FIRST HAND that admit they would rather have a beretta then anything chambered in 5.56. EVERY first hand veteran I personally know after they get out have a massive disgust of that cartridge and associated weapons. And when we DO buy "the first gun back home" its also always chambered in a genuine battle rifle cartridge.308 family, etc.

I am a Veteran. I carried a M16A1 and a M16A2. I used the M16A2 in combat against the AK47. I will tell you, the 7.62x39 isn’t worth much pass 250 yards.
The modern battlefield is much different from WWII. It’s more fluid. A soldier today has to be able to carry much more ammo. When it comes to a firefight, the first side that runs out of ammo looses.
I love steel and wood, but if someone tells you that a Garand or a M14 is a much better rifle then what the military uses today, they either don’t know what they are talking about or they are just lying to themselves.

[usabaker]

I am a Veteran. I carried a M16A1 and a M16A2. I used the M16A2 in combat against the AK47. I will tell you, the 7.62x39 isn’t worth much pass 250 yards.
The modern battlefield is much different from WWII. It’s more fluid. A soldier today has to be able to carry much more ammo. When it comes to a firefight, the first side that runs out of ammo looses.
I love steel and wood, but if someone tells you that a Garand or a M14 is a much better rifle then what the military uses today, they either don’t know what they are talking about or they are just lying to themselves.

In the 70's and early 80's was a PIG gunner, for the most part, so the only dealt with the M16A1 early in the beginning of my time with the SEABEES and then the two years I did in the Army Corps of Engineers. I did not have a positive experience with the rifle, and it was not from know knowing them, I know them well. I was raised on Port Hueneme and as a kid would disassemble clean and reassemble the A1's whiles my Dad and his buddies shot the **** after coming back from qualifications or training. I never had the opportunity to shoulder the A2 or the M4 (military).

I think the M4 is an excellent weapon for what it is intended to be used for; its light, short, and perfect for close-in spaces. YOu can not beat it for close combat, house to house, and room to room. So if I were still in the Military I would not mind having to carry one. However, if we were out in open areas where distance is a factor, I would have a hard time not trading an M4 or A2 for an M14. BUT, I am no longer in the Military and none of that plays anymore and although I have a stripped AR lower that I wanted to build a RETO A1, I never have really cared to own one; which is more then likely why this lower has been sitting in my Safe for 4 or more years, I should just give it to my kids. I find the utility of a rifle like a Mini 14 in .223 or even a SKS more appealing as far as Semi-Autos go.

Me and My Dad, around 1971

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