USGI Original M1 Carbine Sling WW2 Army 100% S.M. Co. 1944 original ?

[320th INF]

Is the description and photos correct for a WWII S.M. Co. sling? Does this sling appear to be original or, has the female portion been "touched up"?

Your thoughts please. May be a 1943?

[USGI Original M1 Carbine Sling WW2 Army 100% original | eBay

Thanks,

Tom

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[painter777]

Hi Tom,
I believe it to be a real S.M. Co. 1943 that seen very light use and / or was stored away. No real signs of Swivel wear or staining between the Finial post and Snap.
Pictures don't show it stretched out to see if there is any oiler contact wear or staining.
The Finial post shows just a little of the Brass color peeking thru the blackened finish from being snapped on to.
Both sides of the Snap are blackened steel.
Looking at the lift the dot side of the snap shows the same thing, just a little of the Brass color peeking thru the blackened finish on the inner ring catch / hook loop.
On the back side of the snap, if you look real closely shows the prong tabs have finish gone from being installed and bent / crimped over, but this part does appears to have IMO been oiled over. Probably to get rid of that white looking oxidation we see on these often. I don't believe it's been painted over, just oiled.
I don't know why he didn't oil the rest of the metal (??).
The time period would be correct to find the Round Keeper- early - mid 43.

The added ink stamp I can't make out... Seems too long to be a MRT stamp ? Maybe a Date added (?).

So bottom line IMO a real S.M. Co. 1943 that seen very light use or stored away. MRT stamp ? I can't tell, just seems too long for that when compared to other MRT Stamps.

**I just noticed the location in Canevare, Italy. Last night I was looking at US Militaria items on a European site and seen items listed from this same location.**

And with all that said I just looked over his feedback, both as a seller and buyer. Feedback is about 50 -50 Buying and Selling, appears most have French or Italian feedback.

But seeing this one from a past sale worries me. Does this look like a S.M. Co. 1948 to Anyone else ?

Pictured below from a past sale by this seller

USGI Original M1 Carbine Sling WW2 Army 100% original | eBay



Add: https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=32228

[USGI]

Charlie beat me to it on this one. I had been trying to find a couple pictures of one of mine - also wanted to link to the sticky threads on slings. I noticed most of the details that he did, but couldn't have explained them as well.

At least these aren't going for $250 lately. And the last ones I saw at that price were Stamped "S.M. CO." I've never seen the date stamp 1948 before, either. I've had several of these now, but only one that I feel is completely legit. I don't think the wear on mine is "artificial," but have seen some where I have suspected that.

I notice one of these recent eBay slings definitely has a lower case "o" - the other one seems to have split the difference with a "medium" size "O" - maybe to satisfy more buyers that it's correct? Bill Ricca warned us all, that someday it would become harder to identify a real one. Here's pics of my "well worn" sling. I call it an S.M. Co. 1944, but as you can see that's only a guess. - Bob

Attachment 115482Attachment 115483

[320th INF]

Charlie and Bob,

Thank you both for taking the time to answer. May be a 48 or 43, I really cannot tell. The long ink stamp is somewhat concerning as I have not seen this before. I have seen and owned some MRT's, but nothing like this marking. Also, I did reference the sling sticky with a lot of good advise from wise members. It might just be correct.

Thanks again for your help,

Tom

[painter777]

GIBOB, I see all your slings Snaps and Finial hardware is Brass. Never was important to me about the year as long as I knew the sling is real. I bought Dozens and Dozens pre- 2010 that were blackened steel, cheap like under $35 each because not everyone knew they used steel while trying to conserve brass. My best score was that bulk purchase from the I believe they were called The Museum of the Pacific in Texas when they were clearing out excess stock.
GIBOB You might be able to clean that Swivel stained area off the fabric. But I'd fear you'd pull some of the original ink markings off.... I sure wouldn't chance it. Unless I knew I had a Real sling with Fake markings added.

Remember Mr. Ricca said "There are Fake slings with Fake markings and there are Real slings with Fake markings"

On the what appears to be a 1948 dated sling (pictured above) the partial views of the Keeper make it look like a Repro / post War Keeper.

I mean really......... How hard would it be to get a Ink Stamp Pad made up to put the S.M. Co. markings on a real or fake sling ?

I remember having Ink Stamps for Deposits, Paid in Full for receipts and made up with the our Company name and logo on them from a Stamp shop.
I gave them a print off of the logo and they inverted (?) it and made them up in the size I needed. I remember the guy telling me they could make up anything I needed.
We'd stamp below the lower hinge on the garage entry doors, then varnish over it. Or just over the finish paint if it wasn't a varnished finish.
We 'tagged' many of the other trades Gang boxes (tool boxes) with our special stamp that had the same on it.. our company name, outreached arm/hand with a spray gun spraying and below a Skull and Cross Bones with Horns below said - Painters From H3LL

I've also seen some stocks over the years that may have had these type Ink Stamps as Crossed Cannons Stamps with no impression in the wood. Maybe from Harrisons Template (?)

And numbers and letters. My Wife contacted a Ebay seller with the number / letter steel stamps. She was wanting to mark my Daughters Show Saddles on the inside for identification purposes. Trust me when I say Show Saddles and Tack can be very expensive. She asked a few questions about size and font. The seller replied he could make up any thing she needed to include 1 piece stamps that could spell out my Daughters full 1st and last name. For Custom orders he just needed a print out to scale.

So how hard would it be to get a W-S'G' or Sq / Block S stamp if you had Bad intentions ??

I've purchased 2 Repro Northridge Swivels over the last few years. 1 to replace a lost KV-S'G' and just ordered another for a spare.
The day will come the Repros will be considered real and your real ones Fake.
Larsons book and examples isn't helping.
I bought a Repro sling from a Company that stated they were made on the original machines and Exactly matched WWII slings. A Side X Side comparison I can not tell the difference.... except for the smell. Soon we won't know when someone develops 'Old Web Gear Cologne' !

I'm at the point I'll pay too much for real. I'm tired of bargain hunting for 10 - 12+ years.
Tough being Honest but safer for me. I don't need anymore 'Checks' by my name in the Good Book Above !

P.S. I see What a Country is out of stock on real GI C tips. Their price had jumped up to $89.95 a while back. I think his name is Damon and when he gets a chance he'll stock more, but they may go up again. I remember 1st buying these for $39.95 limit 2 and free ship. Week later I'd order again and again. Sorta dumb because I don't display with slings installed and only use D tips on my shooter carbines.

Sorry so long,

---------- Post added at 07:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:11 PM ----------

It might just be correct

Tom,
I believe the link you provided IS a real one.
The past auction I pictured from the same seller....... not convinced it was / is real

Added to clear any confusion my long reply may have caused.

[W5USMC]

Real slings with Fake markings

That o is awful large on that "1948" sling, my guess a fake marking, and once you sell one with a fake marking all others up for sale become suspect. I personally would not buy anything from that seller.

[USGI]

P.S. I see What a Country is out of stock on real GI C tips. Their price had jumped up to $89.95 a while back. I think his name is Damon and when he gets a chance he'll stock more, but they may go up again. I remember 1st buying these for $39.95 limit 2 and free ship. Week later I'd order again and again. Sorta dumb because I don't display with slings installed and only use D tips on my shooter carbines.

Charlie, I'd been wanting to get back here and comment on that sling I pictured in post #3 above. That one came from Damon at WAC about 10 years ago. The price then was $44.95. Later buys were at $59.95 and $69.95 - always have had good, friendly, and fast service from them. The last time I ordered slings (one was a "D tip") two of them came wrapped in heavy weight aluminum foil and looked like they had never been opened. Have you ever seen them packaged that way? I figured they may have purchased them directly out of surplus storage somewhere - the one "C tip" in the foil is about 3-1/2" shorter overall length than the SM.Co. pictured in post #3.

I've bought (3) stocks from them, too. The latest is that OI Type 3 that you OK'd for me as "won't last long at that price" a couple years ago. I ordered that one over the phone and the guy was telling me a lot about the company, etc. He turned out to be the owner, Yashi - a heck of a nice guy, I thought. I asked him about Damon, but can't remember now whether he said he was still there, or not.

FYI, I got the Ford out and took it for a spin yesterday. I can't imagine it with a "crate motor" and automatic trans. Glad it's safe here in my own garage - would hate to see it Bubba'd! - Bob

[painter777]

would hate to see it Bubba'd!

In the order I built them

Ford 1957 panel wagon in a Pontiac Forest Green with baby moons and Mickey Thompsons. Original body lines and bumpers. Chevy 350 3 speed column shift tied to a Saginaw IIRC.

1954 Dodge 1/2 ton Step Side with bat wing hood, in another Pontiac color (A Teal) that you'd find on their mid 60's Lemans and Tempest. Motor out of a Dodge Coronet, Super Red Ram Wedge with 2 4 barrel Carters setting off set over the valve covers (Pre Hemi). 1-1/2 ton International 4 speed tranny with a mud gear that would pull your house off it's foundation.

1962 Chevy Step Side brought up from Muscle Shoals, Alabama. Side spare tire carrier all original exterior. 4 speed Hurst tied to a 409 and IIRC 3.73 rear gear.

All brakes were upgraded for the time, power steering added along with generator look, but Alternator inside conversion.

I would have LOVED to chain up to your straight cut Coaster !!


Sold them all off to race 10' Hydro boats. Outboard Max 65hp class. GVW Invaders. Fixed planers. Quite the Rush running 65hp up and down rivers in a 10' boat with maybe 1 1/2' foot in the water on plane. Always stuck with the long shaft late 70's John-Rudes. Spent some afternoons stuck on top of the bank after missing a curve and many sleepless nights at a hotel parking lot rebuilding lower units.

Bubba that truck...... Keep dancing on that trigger Bob

[320th INF]

Guys,

Someone did a "buy it now" for $130.00. Hope it was real. I have pick up several slings from What a Country. They have some nice slings when in stock - they do smell old. I was just looking for a "real" marked sling.

Thanks for the education........man Charlie can you write

Tom

[painter777]

Yea,
Wife bought me some Black Rifle coffee over the weekend, High Octane !
Way too much coffee today.
I'll be up late watching Perry Mason and Alfred Hitchcock.