5.7 Johnson and M1 Carbine

[browningautorifle]

i thin k this one just got lost in the cracks of time. The cartridge wasn't a success at the time when they had just passed the .30 cal and were trying 7.62, and 5.56 was just looming too. All this and three wars in a short time, over a twenty year period and it was forgotten. I would like to try a carbine in that chamber but they are all but unobtanium here in Canada and a registered trial experiment isn't much fun here, not with our overseers.

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[eb in oregon]

i think this one just got lost in the cracks of time. The cartridge wasn't a success at the time when they had just passed the .30 cal and were trying 7.62, and 5.56 was just looming too. All this and three wars in a short time, over a twenty year period and it was forgotten. I would like to try a carbine in that chamber but they are all but unobtanium here in Canada and a registered trial experiment isn't much fun here, not with our overseers.

I'd have to agree with you. It is weird though that in the last 20 to 30 years the firearms industry has created many new small caliber cartridges but the 5.7 Johnson hasn't seen a revival. I believe that if a company would make a new version (especially in stainless steel) it would see a resurgence. As long as people stayed within the parameters of the original design and factory ammunition was available. I would point out though that Ed Johnson has stated in the past one of the reasons the cartridge initially failed was that Johnson had a hard time trying to get anybody to make factory ammunition for it. Those that did didn't make much, so ammunition was a problem. And most people don't want to spent the time and effort to "roll" their own. One of my dreams for years has been an M2 Carbine in 5.7 MMJ. With decent magazines and not that imported rubbish.

Video: 5.7 mm Johnson Spitfire Carbine | American Rifleman | Official Journal Of The NRA

[browningautorifle]

With decent magazines

USGI... I'd just make my own anyway. Probably just gas check cast and as heavy as I could find for a mould.

[mrclark303]

i thin k this one just got lost in the cracks of time. The cartridge wasn't a success at the time when they had just passed the .30 cal and were trying 7.62, and 5.56 was just looming too. All this and three wars in a short time, over a twenty year period and it was forgotten. I would like to try a carbine in that chamber but they are all but unobtanium here in Canada and a registered trial experiment isn't much fun here, not with our overseers.

I'm with you Jim, love to try one, it's a facinating calibre and it would make a potent, handy little Carbine, especially in am M1A1 stock.

[RCS]

Mr Johnson even tried to interest US Ordnance in his 5.7mm cartridge (40 gr bullet at 3000 fps) while they were working on the 22/7,62x51 testing,
but along came the 222 Rem Special & Winchester 224E2 which cancelled out everything else

[RCS]

I am certain that I posted this short story before: soon after the 5,7 and 22 Carbine Wildcat cartridges found their way into surplus M1 carbines a gunsmith offered a "kit" (not cheap) to convert your carbine in a 7,62x33 mm Kurz caliber using 308 Win cases shortened to fit the carbine magazine with a 110 gr bullet. This kit, as I remember, included a longer barrel with the gas port moved forward, the slide was modified and bolt face opened-up completely, This also included a long recoil spring. A friend asked me to help him complete this conversion on a cheap DCM carbine and I told him that I wanted no part of this project. my photo shows the 5,7mm carbine and 30 Kurz cartridges (my kurz cartridge photo was also used by Cartridges of the World some years ago)

The 7,92x33 still lives as I saw a conversion of the AR-15 to use this cartridge, custom 8mm barrel with kurz chamber plus gages (around $800 ?) and still without a working magazine !

[eb in oregon]

A friend asked me to help him complete this conversion on a cheap DCM carbine and I told him that I wanted no part of this project.

Sounds like an excellent decision to me. I wouldn't touch that project with a stick. I've never had the desire to do something "just because." And sticking a cartridge in an M1 carbine receiver with almost twice the case capacity "just because" seems a poor challenge to take up.

[floydthecat]

Sounds like an excellent decision to me. I wouldn't touch that project with a stick. I've never had the desire to do something "just because." And sticking a cartridge in an M1 carbine receiver with almost twice the case capacity "just because" seems a poor challenge to take up.

If one has some old parts lying around, a “just because” fun conversion is 7.62 x 25. You won’t gain any performance or accuracy from it, but you can form your own brass easily enough and shoot Spitzer profile projectiles, or standard .308 carbine projectiles.

[eb in oregon]

If one has some old parts lying around, a “just because” fun conversion is 7.62 x 25. You won’t gain any performance or accuracy from it, but you can form your own brass easily enough and shoot Spitzer profile projectiles, or standard .308 carbine projectiles.

If I can't have a PPSh 41 I see no need to make a carbine in 7.62x25 as .30 carbine is superior in all loadings and I don't like tweaking magazines or feed ramps. I was fortunate once to have an article published in Handloader magazine (issue 201 Oct 1999) so I'm very familiar with the cartridge. And even though I've still got bunches of it, with a few hundred formed from 5.56 (when I first started working with the cartridge there was no boxer primed brass available and though I've done it I avoid berdan primed). Like I mentioned, "just because" doesn't float my boat much. I've enough to keep me occupied already.

However if a guy want's to do such a project that's all well and good. But the 7.62x33 mm Kurz in a M1 carbine doesn't sit well with me. I've seen rifles chambered in cartridges the receiver wasn't designed to hold. It may work for a while, but eventually it will blow up. I've seen it and applied first aid.

[browningautorifle]

a few hundred formed from 5.56

That's an interesting side note. I never thought about making 7.62x25 from 5.56 brass... We still have far more steel around although most ammo is harder to find now.